Why have so many of our players, who a couple of years ago promised so much, not kicked on and developed into better players, other than Brown I cant name any who have raised their game to a higher level in that time.

For me Clark, Sweeney, Foley, Mackay, Power, Liddle,Tymon, Jones and Humphries are no better, or in some cases worse players now than 2 years ago.
Mediocrity seems to be acceptable right through the club. It's as if we dont have enough players at the club who are ambitious enough to play at a higher level.

Liddle has been quality this season, so I wouldn't include him but a fair call with the rest.

Apart from the number of own goals he's scored.

I think Clark is the unluckiest player we've had for a while. Always gets injured at the wrong time or is played out of position.

He should be playing centre back for me alongside Collins and I would have Liddle at left back. Lidds played there in his first season for us admittedly in L2 and he was brilliant. I know he didn't do too well at right back last year but I think the general shoddiness of our back four and keepers last year would put anyone off their game.

With a run of games behind him and some luck with injuries Big Ben would be a major player for us. At least we know he's up for a fight as does Scotty.

Of that list I'd say only Ben Clark and Ritchie Humphries have declined.

The likes of the nearly men like Mackay, Foley and Power are precisely the same - not quite good enough.

Gary Liddle has been superb. I wouldn't split his partnership with Big Sam for anything. Can't believe someone would suggest splitting them and removing Hartley just to add Ben clark who looked good in League Two but has rarely impressed since.

I concur.

23 goals shipped in last 10 games not exactly superb partnership stuff. Take out the 5 from MKD and it's still 18 in 9. Cracks are there.

Austin has been brilliant and Collins moving to right side of the centre half pair has revolutionised his game, but I don't think Lidds is aggressive enough to play centre back and gets caught out positionally, especially to balls played over the top. Clark can pass the ball well and would thrive next to a rejuvenated Collins.

Collins and Clark would lack pace and movement and would be a disaster. Liddle is the perfect partner to Collins.

ffs i know i like to whinge but this place is getting ridiculous.

To even suggest splitting Liddle and Collins up

Does anyone know if Clark and Collins have played together this season as a central defensive partnership?

spot on

It's not whinging TWH it's fact that we've shipped those goals and an opinion about a defensive pairing. Even with a 5 man midfield we've conceded 2 a game. Lidds got done up by Duffy on saturday, that was not good defending he was turned far too easy, a more experienced pairing might work better.

John MacPhail and Mick Tait ran like they were towing caravans but they were a solid unit, same as Mick Smith and Bennyworth, or McGuckin. Natural central defenders take up good positions and read the game.

im sure with Hartley back and Gamble gaining match fitness, we will be a little more solid at the back, hopefully a couple of wins or clean sheets will bring back that confidence and belief that appears lacking in the defence