On Ceefax's letter page....

When I was growing up in the 50's, recycling was encouraged by the consumer being paid to recycle.
We would keep all the old newspapers, wollens, metals and bottles.
They were then taken to the rag and bone yard where they were weighed and we were paid.
Now we are threatened with a fine if we don't recycle for somebody else to profit.
This is called progress.

PC, Northern Ireland.

That person has got it spot on!!!! :sweet:

Very true

Spent hours as a kid scrounging up Lowcocks lemonade bottles to take back

when my mum ran a pub in thirsk many many many moons ago, my eldest brother who was about 10/11 use to pinch the bottles from the back of the pub give em to his mates who took them to the front of the pub to get the money back on them......that was until me mam caught him like................

the cogs of industry are beginning to churn in a big way now in China and India, so what happens here regarding environmental pollution will hardly make much impact globally. This Govt is making noises about restricting travel within the UK by making it so cost-prohibitive for the masses so as to infringe our freedom of movement. There is even talk about banning internal flights within the UK. Things like this will make people turn on the environmentalists, because it is then directly affecting peoples' way of life. Can you imagine the French or the Yanks putting up with that? I'm fairly certain that the fuel protests of a few years back will pale into insignificance if these scenarios come to fruition.

The UK is fooked. Last one out turn the lights off. It saves on greenhouse gases you know.

Chip, you have a point on the never being happy with your lot front. How many of us would not like to go back in time and give our parents a few quid at one time or another.

I don't think its the selfishness that pisses everyone off, its the lies. When Paddy Ashdown said 1p on tax purely for education there was hardly a single detractor most people would happily have paid it. Look at any high visability charity effort and the money streams in. The problem is that we know that the extra taxes go on the wrong things like Blair's folly in Iraq and new nuclear weapons. The NHS is rammed full of administrators, public transport is knackered and we are no allowed to use our cars without being taxed or congestion charged to death. The recycling point above is true, there's profit in the various bags and boxes but we won't see any of it.

Fish and Chips wrapped in newspaper.........the ultimate recycling

Canada!!!! :sweet:

Malta

I just wanna live somewhere warm, i hate the frigging cold......it does me athritis in ya know

You know how you get these things Chip??

You work for them. You put up with the day to day drudge of getting up in the dark and going out in the cold and working. Probably these days so does your missus. And after you've both paid half your earnings to the Government, you get to spend the rest of the money you've earned on what you like. The manufacturing industry in this country has been shagged by the crippling taxation and interest rates and do goody H&S and equal opportunities costs imposed on the employers so the profit on all the goods that you buy and the services you pay for goes to other economies.

People pay tax for central services, health, police, defence, name me a Ministry. But when the Police don't perform, the health service is fu cked, we're fighting a war against no-one in TWO countries, not incidentally defence but aggression, and you get more and more and more taxed for less and less and less service. maybe it's time to have a look eh??

And if that's twisting on 21, turn it over brother!!

Incidentally, would it be rude to ask which other countries you've lived in?? There's more people deserting the UK than ever before and they outnumber the amount that's coming in.

Mr Dibbs - a link for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_dilemma

How exactly when hardly anyone can afford a car? 90% of the population either rides bikes or scooters or nifty fifties where I live and that's quite a big city. How much are the emissions froma 50cc two stroke engine?? They fish the river so that can't be too bad, that's lets industry locally off the hook, geddit?? Eh??

I think you'll find that the China and India argument was Bush's get out for not signing the Kyoto agreement in which, incidentally, China and India were participants.

Vietnams a dirty hole though. Minging.

so mr dibbs you would go for old labour then?

so who is going to do the best for you ? and pray tell me how?

Read it again - it adds to your argument (in some respects)! Basically, the prisoners dilema suggests that when "bodies" are interdependent, and there is a possibility that one may gain at the expense of the other, if one stitches the other up, they'll both try and do it. (This is the very basic version). As a result, we'll see a race to the bottom. In this case, let's assume that "going green" costs. If all nations say they'll do it, everyone pays the cost. But if a nation says it will (and in reality does something else) then they'll win at the expense of others. Everyone has this incentive, so everyone "cheats". As a result, everyone pays lip service to environmental issues, but no-one acts. The question, therefore, is how do we stop the "race to the bottom"?