On tonight on BBC, a reporter goes through basic military training undercover in order to show the harsh treatment.

GET A FUCK ING GRIP!!!

Oh dear, we had a change parade.
Oh dear the nasty Sargeant shouted at me.
Oh dear someone punched an NCO and got punched back.

This is one brave lad because the rest of his platoon will be looking for him. Twat!

I'm involved in a conversation on Arrse on the same subject, the troops are not happy!

What an absolute p[ile of sensationalist bollox. It was so annoying to watch. "he shook me really hard by my helmet straps"
Christ on a bike. I served 12 yrs and feel I can speak for many squaddies and ex-squaddies on here by saying the goon that made this would be shaken by more than his fookin helmet straps if he was still man enough to be there. Its the Army for Gods sake not some church committee.
I am going to bed annoyed and will remain so for some time................what are the BBc thinking of paying for this crap

He said, she said, it said.

Nothing whatsoever shown to substantiate the claims. The bloke should be recalled under QR's and sent to Helmand.

Or dressed in 5 snorkel parkas and tied to a chair in the drying room for an hour like I was................character building son, thats what that is !!!

He said 'I seen violence' oh whoopy do! And what do you think you see in war? It's not a cuddling contest.

Loads of bites . So a bloke can tape the army, whilst undercover for 6 months then? Where is the security?

Loads of respect to the French Foreign Legion, they beat the fook out of their odd-balls until they fit. March or die. All volunteers and chaps.

Before you watched the programme did you expect it to be anything other than it was ?

I wouldn't get excited about the Legion mate, it ain't what it used to be. t's simply part of the French Army now and Aubagne and Cartelnaudary are holiday camps nowadays in comparison to the old days. The days of Sidi bel Abbes are long gone.

Not really, The British Board of Communists strike again.

Its just the way telly is these days,people want reality shows,but genuine reality isnt entertaining so they put whichever angle they want on it to suit their purpose.
The armys not the first proffession theyve done it too & it wont be the last.

The Communists had quite a tough army though, didn't they??

I seem to recall they gave the Germans a good kicking

But the program was a load of cack, the world is going soft.............

It might be good if a program was made which said

'The army, it's quite tough and they were bastards to me when I was training, but it stopped me getting shot to shit.....'

What I don't understand is how come Mr I and others who are "in the know" often condemn violence generally, but describe it as an acceptable and even desirable/necessary part of military life. I'm not quite sure how you can divorce the civilian world from the military world so unilaterally because they exist in tandem?

I'd be interested in what your views are on General Dannatt's comments, "The army does not allow bullying in any shape or form." - from what you say this is complete and utter wotsits. Is this just purely hypocitical propaganda to appease the media/world at large from his generalship or what?

....and how would you run the army, do enlighten us.

Unless I wanted it modelled on the lines of a mixture of the Health snd Safety Executive, Hiking Club and the Brownies, I think you won't be asked.

Lets boil it down to straight talking.

Soldiering is in essence legally inflicted extreme violence - and I do mean extreme. The aim is to kill other people without being killed yourself.

Ever thought about bayonetting ? There are no straw sacks on a battlefield and typically when using a bayonet its against someone dug in - in a trench. This means that the target is usually the head. This means that the bayonet enters the mouth or the eyes. Not nice is it? Ever seen anyone shot? Any idea what a 7.62 calibre round will do to you? or even worse, a 0.5 calibre. What about using a 66mm anti tank rocket against human beings, it makes a mess. Trust me, its a dirty smelly mess and its horrible.

Soldiering is a dirty business, the dirtiest there is and the British Army/Royal Marines is one of the best in the business at it, we're unbeaten since 1066. We're good because we're trained hard and the harder the better. The toughest training in the British forces is that given to potential Royal Marines and Paratroopers. Don't believe the publicity from the SAS pycophants, these two courses are much tougher because you're coming from a much lower level. The atmosphere in a military unit is testosterone fuelled, there is lots of drinking and fighting and slagging each other off. It's not nice and cosy, its not politically correct but it does work.

Bullying. If we look at the true definition then of course its wrong. Someone being systematically picked on is wrong. Someone being beat up by the instructors is wrong and when this happens there should be action taken. A recruit being given a slap is not bullying. A recruit being made to do press ups is not bullying. A recruit being made to do quick change parades is not bullying. I seen nothing on that program that constitued bullying.

Deepcut: Something was very wrong in that place and in my opinion there was a cover up. I have heard names mentioned of a particular instructor but I have no proof. He has since been kicked out for other offences but there was no justice for those who died in that place. Incidentally, Deepcut was not a basic training camp it was 'phase two' or in other words; everyone passing through the place was a trained soldier learning a SQ or trade training.

The simple fact is that you have to but its not easy and sometimes it boils over. Its the reason why the likes of Union Street in Plymouth, Colchester, Aldershot sometimes resemble war zones. When you leave its even worse and theres no de-training. The UK Prison population is 11% ex military compared to something like 2% of the general population being ex military. Coincidence? From a personal perspective I had a hard time adjusting when I came out, it probably took me the best part of ten years to settle down.



Dannet is the best CDS (Chief of the Defence Staff) in living memory. Far better than that plonker Mike Jackson so beloved of the media. Jackson sold the troops down the river for his political masters, even the Para Reg lads have no time for him and Jackson was ex Airborne. His (Dannet's) comments were dead right, no bullying is allowed but now we get down to the definition of bullying and the military definition is different from the civilian one. Soldiers train for violence and they train violently.

Very honest and interesting answers, fair play. I wasn't suggesting war was pleasant like. I'm not that daft!

Sounds a bit like Borstal with weapons in some ways.

:) It's not that bad, remember that everyone, with the odd exception of someone who is stealing rations in order to make a third rate documentary, is trying to achieve something. The nuggets tend to get weeded out in the first few weeks when its 100% bullshit once the dregs have been disposed of its on to constructive training.