Worked with kids from Pennywell TEF, southwick, all excluded from school, all very fooking angry
but none carried knives, and really only strutted the walk

I haven't replied to this as I though the thread had ended a while back and was waiting for it to die a natural death, but it's had the shock panels on it and been brought back to life.

i've not said hang em or flog em i've just said that it costs the nation an absolute fortune to house first generation immigrant prisoners at a time when the world is on the way to becoming a very dark place and that we should do what we can to tighten our belts as a nation and cut down on unneccasry costs.

with regards to your remarks to hooligans it is as mutley says - banter, crack and the freedom that we all enjoy in various levels at away matches.

i went to games with schoolfriends and a neighbour who was a junior FBB in his day and his friends and their friends. Whilst there may have been instances of arrest and court cases the only people who categorise any of this circle as hooligans were the local press, police and other fans who maybe deemed their behaviour as such. It was more naivety than anything - who would have thought at 18 year old getting to carlisle for 1030 am to go on the piss before the footy would result in trouble, it's what we did at 'home' so why would it be any different there?

Essentially it became a display of behaviours different to others - the mannerisms of a different generation - experience came to show that knowing you were going into an area where there may have been confrontation didn't mean you were going to encounter it or instigate it. But you would still go for as Mutley says - the crack.

Blah blah yes people may have fought at games and pubs in towns away but this is not exclusive to people from my circle/generation at that time and nor is it exclusive to the recent years, for ease of many labelled as blue order. In fact I'd hazard a guess to say more people who are labelled as 'non-hooligans' have probably been arrested at Pools games over the past twenty years or so than those rather so quickly classed as hooligans.

It was certainly not a gang, you either went or you didn't - there was no pressure - it was a large, close, strong group of friends, which even today if not seeing each other for several months due to family, working away and other commitments have a long lasting bond of friendship and cameraderie and on the whole, harmless and humourous tales to talk about. I knew of one person who once carried a knife and he was the son of a Sgt Major and just one of those people who is as mad as fook but still a nice fella - we all know them - he never used it and was attempting to impress people who didn't find it clever

Perhaps if some weren't so bitter they would have more friends.

This makes sense to me, but pick at it with your finest nasal hair comb

Read this....Please....and take note of the...."I'VE" bit please!!!!

I've never ever known anyone to carry a knife to a game never mind use one!!!!

I have recently been in a primary school where the younguns 're-enacted' a song and it went aaam goona fucking cut you up' apologies for the accent I dont do gangster rap ( or whatever it is called)
but this kid was about 9 yrs old ( said ina black gansta stylee)

So my point is the 'black' kids might not be responsible for whats happening, but the culture of that genre might be

Not many really is it when you consider that fig will be outdone this year

how many whites killed by niggers were racially motivated or is it racist to accuse a 'black' of being racist

you'll never get s realistic stat for that alas

course i get it

read my post again

show me it the other way round - you wont get the stats

I've not never said white people don't carry out crime - my initial involvement in this specifically relates to the cost of keeping people in prison who are not from this country who have no respect for the culture(s), laws or people. All men and women are capable of extreme and seemingly senseless behaviour, be it physical assault, mental torture or even in people who are 'non-gang members' who class themselves as sane and 'normal' who could do something so seemingly innocuous as to slate the decisions of their employers on line. Everybody has their boiling point and will react differently to type and whilst the most extreme examples of this result in murder and rape, the variant from the 'normal' behaviour of the individuals is possibly the same when a vicar may swear storm out of a sermon.

Again I reiterate I have never been in a 'gang' and yes if you could analyse all to find out what their type is and what would be expected tip them over the edge, however violent/non-violent the result is, then you may be able to help, but he finances and set up are just not there.

Oh and if you're working with people who are calling people pakis and sit there and say nowt then you're just as guilty and have no room to complain. Next time it happens, speak out. You'll be backed.

Be belligerent more often off a computer, it's quite a commendable trait in some. I'll tell you my asda yarn later today in real life.

stiffer sentencing is the only answer on a couple of occasions in my younger days i.ve been silly at football and got a £50 fine and it had no impact.
The last time i was silly at football in 2001 and my barrister at crown court said you could go to jail today be ready.
That is when the penny dropped and my arse also we need maximum effect for crimes.

Danny Wilson?

Errrr, black music ?

Goths?

John Reid. he said after 20 months of taking a massive salary, 'the Home Office is not fit for purpose,' and then buggered off on a massive pension. I can do nowt for almost two years and if someone gives me 150K a year at the end of it, I'll share it with all of youse.

The problem it seems to me is that a lot of young niggers live up to the stereotype - as Chip pointed out, many don't feel they have much of an option other than to join a gang. I am more inclined to agree with his views as he seems to be the only one who has had any kind of real contact with them.

And by being wary of young black males and keeping their distance, people create a vicious circle which is in danger of becoming more entrenched as time goes on.

I'm not sure what can be done to break the cycle, but better police relations with the black community must be a start. I know of a policeman in Essex who openly brags about ignoring black-on-black crime as he classes it as 'non-crime'. I don't think he's representative of all coppers, but attitudes like his still seem common according to the Steven lawrence enquiry.

Out of interest Mr I, what area of Nottingham do your kids live/go to school in?