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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:53 pm 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52308201

Good article.
Given this i just cant see the pubs been open before...........next year????

And i didnt know this;

"Remember, there are four coronaviruses that already circulate in human beings. They cause the common cold, and we don't have vaccines for any of them,"

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:11 pm 
Some element of normality has to return. No amount of scaremongering from top scientists can stop that.

How long do people really think the younger generation are going to put up with a lockdown and absolute social distancing before they start to realise they will never get a job again or will certainly never progress in a career.

All to protect older people that probably wont suffer from a recession.

Before some go off on a one about the above comments you all have to realise that this will affect different generations and classes kn different ways.

Most pub employees are young. They need the money. If other countries are trying to get back to normal then so will we.

And that scientist needs to stick to what he knows. He is turning into something of an irritant. If the under 30s have no prospects why should they lock down for any longer than is really needed? What's in it for them?

The solution has to suit all.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:24 pm 
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No one is going to go off on one about your comments. I for one expect them.
However there is one major flaw in your argument about the attitude of young people in relation to the elderly
The elderly are their relations who they generally love very dearly as grandparents, aunties and uncles and they would not do anything to put them in harm's way, apart from maybe a small minority. There is always a small minority.
We need to look very closely at the plight of youngsters when this is over and pay special attention to their needs. In discussions with other elderly people that is the one thing everybody agrees on. As one old boy put it. We have to make sure that our grandkids don't become the lost generation. And do you know what. We will break our backs to achieve that. And do you know what else. The kids know that.
There is a lot of equity release going on in this country at the moment but it will grow rapidly when the grandkids need help. You can be sure of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:33 pm 
sorry that was just patronising nonsense.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:35 pm 
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Watching from afar wrote:
sorry that was just patronising nonsense.

Good answer. Must remember that.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:21 pm 
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Am I in the right thread for coronavirus? I am?
Good.

Spain has ramped up the testing in a big way and guess what? The number of infected people has shot up with it.
It doesn't alter the downward trend; it just shifts the datum. And tells the real story.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:46 pm 
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Maybe compo can answer this but say I get tested today and it's negative but on Saturday I pick the virus up and then pass it on, what was the point of the test. If that can happen surely the test needs repeating every so many days or indeed every day.
That would be some task that in a country of 60 odd million.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:07 pm 
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derwent wrote:
Maybe compo can answer this but say I get tested today and it's negative but on Saturday I pick the virus up and then pass it on, what was the point of the test. If that can happen surely the test needs repeating every so many days or indeed every day.
That would be some task that in a country of 60 odd million.

I can answer that. There are two tests. One for the live virus, one for antibodies. For the live test, it’s about confirming if those with symptoms actually have it. If you do, we can isolate you, trace those you’ve contacted, and isolate and test them. This is the best means of containment. For the antibody test, this confirms if you’ve had it in the past. This could be a game changer for social life. If (and we assume this is the case) you’ve already had it, you’re immune. If you’re immune you can go back to work and/or help in any relief effort. A combination of both tests together could help us ease restrictions. But until we have a vaccine/treatment, some restrictions on life are inevitable.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:25 pm 
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Thanks fat man for that clarification.
Any ideas when both of these will be available as I have read on BBC website that a vaccine will not be available until the second half of 2021.
Also has there been any consideration of some kind of "passport" for those who have been confirmed of have had the virus?

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:33 pm 
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Bluestreak wrote:
Thanks fat man for that clarification.
Any ideas when both of these will be available as I have read on BBC website that a vaccine will not be available until the second half of 2021.
Also has there been any consideration of some kind of "passport" for those who have been confirmed of have had the virus?

China are using an app that confirms whether you’ve had the virus, are currently positive, or may have come into contact with someone who has had it. But they can do that given the extent to which they control their population. We could never go as far as that (and I don’t think I’d want us to be able to do that).

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:33 pm 
Restrictions until mid 2021 will destroy the country and its economy. Whether people like it or not that's the fact of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:50 pm 
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The Fat Man wrote:
derwent wrote:
Maybe compo can answer this but say I get tested today and it's negative but on Saturday I pick the virus up and then pass it on, what was the point of the test. If that can happen surely the test needs repeating every so many days or indeed every day.
That would be some task that in a country of 60 odd million.

I can answer that. There are two tests. One for the live virus, one for antibodies. For the live test, it’s about confirming if those with symptoms actually have it. If you do, we can isolate you, trace those you’ve contacted, and isolate and test them. This is the best means of containment. For the antibody test, this confirms if you’ve had it in the past. This could be a game changer for social life. If (and we assume this is the case) you’ve already had it, you’re immune. If you’re immune you can go back to work and/or help in any relief effort. A combination of both tests together could help us ease restrictions. But until we have a vaccine/treatment, some restrictions on life are inevitable.

Thanks for your help but what I want to know is how often you need to test people as one day they could be negative and then two days later they are positive. Or are we only going to test people that show symptoms.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:02 pm 
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If we get this under control we won’t need daily testing of everyone. With some social restrictions (not a full lockdown, but some in place), all we’ll need to do is contract trace effectively, so we know who is at risk, and they can self isolate. As long as we have some restrictions in place, we’ll be able trace the limited number who are at risk.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:03 pm 
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In other words, no big crowds, no big social events, until we get a vaccine.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:05 pm 
And what if there is no vaccine?


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:26 pm 
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The Fat Man wrote:
If we get this under control we won’t need daily testing of everyone. With some social restrictions (not a full lockdown, but some in place), all we’ll need to do is contract trace effectively, so we know who is at risk, and they can self isolate. As long as we have some restrictions in place, we’ll be able trace the limited number who are at risk.

Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:29 pm 
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Then we have to wait until herd immunity, which is no immunity at all for the old and vulnerable.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:32 pm 
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Spain started up in a limited way on Monday, but you couldn't tell that it was limited, considering the number of cars on the streets. New infections were falling, but we won't see the effect of the start-up again for about three weeks. The rest of the world will be watching.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:37 pm 
And there's the rub. For the sanity of everyone we have to try and get back to normality or as near to normality sooner rather than later.

The economy certainly in the short to medium term is in serious trouble. No amount of posturing on here about it needing to happen helps anyone that needs a job to pay their Bill's. Most dont have savings to fall back on.

There will come a time when they will need to put first rather than the over 75s.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:54 pm 
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Watching from afar wrote:
And there's the rub. For the sanity of everyone we have to try and get back to normality or as near to normality sooner rather than later.

The economy certainly in the short to medium term is in serious trouble. No amount of posturing on here about it needing to happen helps anyone that needs a job to pay their Bill's. Most dont have savings to fall back on.

There will come a time when they will need to put first rather than the over 75s.


What are you actually suggesting? Sounds like you want an end of the lockdown, raging spread of the disease and the death of the elderly. Sounds a bit like herding to me. You continuously suggest we shouldn't protect the elderly. Do you want a mass cull of the elderly cos that's what it sounds like to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:15 pm 
I am saying no such thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:20 pm 
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So what such thing are you saying.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:29 pm 
It's quite clear above. Maybe you should try and stop reading between the lines and just comment one what has been written.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:40 pm 
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Watching from afar wrote:
It's quite clear above. Maybe you should try and stop reading between the lines and just comment one what has been written.


So just to be clear. Are you or are you not suggesting that the emphasis should be taken away from protecting the elderly and put elsewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:53 pm 
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I think fat man has explained what I was going too. Testing only good to contain and their won’t be a vaccine to prob Xmas 2021

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:55 pm 
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Compo wrote:
I think fat man has explained what I was going too. Testing only good to contain and their won’t be a vaccine to prob Xmas 2021

Cheers mate.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:43 am 
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Hope the vaccine works better than the flu one.
Absolute shite is that.
The home remedy of raw garlic cloves works perfect.
Maybe some Einstein can invent a home remedy bfor the government.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:53 am 
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The vaccine does work on the flu actually but only one strain of the flu. That’s why no country in world has been able to cure influenza as it mutates to rapid and quick before you can get immunity to all the strains and wipe it out

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:13 am 
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We'll be immune. Haven't you herd?

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:14 am 
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doubt there is an easy solution to the end of the lockdown. if you just waied till there was no cases then you might be in some sort of lockdown for ever. withdraw it too early then the deaths will rise. thing is people die all the time. do not want to put that flu word out again but thousands die every year from it and add those off work by just being ill from it. will we go into lockdown in the flu season. there needs to be big decisions made over the next few months. those who make em need to be very brave indeed as they will get flak like never before for their final decisions. no one set of people of all ages are going to agree with them and thats a certainty.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:20 am 
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For me this is the problem with these dam viruses everbody gets them sooner or later the problem with this one its a killer.
Like you said about vaccines i get the flu jab every october but i still get the bloody virus.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:07 am 
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I've just spend 90 minutes scrutinising coronavirus news from all over the world.
There's not a single sign of optimism concerning the end of this catastrophe.
Plus the fact that hardly any of the figures you see are reliable and in many cases they are magnitudes out.
You can't keep quarantine up for ever and you can't go phasing it out steeply only to allow a second wave to start.

Long story short, we're pretty much Donald Ducked. The world is going to have to change.

Here's the kind of thing I've been seeing. Yes it's the Guardian but it's by an American and not finger pointing or political.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-pandemic

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:30 am 
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Montpoolier wrote:
I've just spend 90 minutes scrutinising coronavirus news from all over the world.
There's not a single sign of optimism concerning the end of this catastrophe.
Plus the fact that hardly any of the figures you see are reliable and in many cases they are magnitudes out.
You can't keep quarantine up for ever and you can't go phasing it out steeply only to allow a second wave to start.

Long story short, we're pretty much Donald Ducked. The world is going to have to change.

Here's the kind of thing I've been seeing. Yes it's the Guardian but it's by an American and not finger pointing or political.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-pandemic


And with that, I think I need a drink.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:46 am 
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Montpoolier wrote:
I've just spend 90 minutes scrutinising coronavirus news from all over the world.
There's not a single sign of optimism concerning the end of this catastrophe.
Plus the fact that hardly any of the figures you see are reliable and in many cases they are magnitudes out.
You can't keep quarantine up for ever and you can't go phasing it out steeply only to allow a second wave to start.

Long story short, we're pretty much Donald Ducked. The world is going to have to change.

Here's the kind of thing I've been seeing. Yes it's the Guardian but it's by an American and not finger pointing or political.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-pandemic


Good read and he puts his points over very well. I have been self isolating since March 12th and I am resigned to the fact that it's going to be a lot longer. I am also resigned to the fact that I will probably catch the virus. At that point I am in a raffle, hoping a stay alive ticket is pulled out for me
It's a bit like being in a battle hoping there isn't a rifle out there containing a bullet with my name on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:59 pm 
So if that's to happen then you are right the world changes.

No more live sport to watch live.
No economy
No music concerts
No pubs
No restaurants
No pools. Permanently

If anyone on here thinks that's acceptable to the majority of people then good luck with that.

The world will rebel before that happens and risk getting it and recovering


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:59 pm 
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You're going to have to face up to it Mr Afar. If the world doesn't adapt, we're fucked.
The world order is busy exposing all its shortcomings in front of our eyes.
And there will be many interests at work to stop it adapting.
And they are not your interests, unless you're a secret billionaire.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:11 pm 
Sorry but that's a bigger conspiracy theory than the one you outed others over.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:34 pm 
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Please yourself Mr Afar but if you hope the world is getting back to normal any time soon you can always dream.
As I said, I spent 90 minutes reading a dozen different independent professional opinions on this matter. Not one of them sees any happy way out of this.
There are two choices. One causes social rebellion and economic collapse, the other causes a hecatomb. Neither is acceptable but is there a middle ground?
The world has to rethink itself to solve that puzzle. The people who control the money aren't very good at reinventing themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:44 pm 
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There are many possible avenues to explore before we are f**ked.
The flu vaccine was never really taken seriously because flu does not transmit so effectively and it is rarely fatal. Yes, I know that it kills some, but far less than say road accidents.
Indeed there are some killers in the world that don't affect the affluent west, such as starvation and malaria, that kill millions every year.
Now that a virus has drawn up at the doorstep of the Trumps and Rothschilds of this world there will be an almightly effort to find a) treatment and b) vaccine.
The traditional vaccines rely on weakened strains of the original virus/bacteria, stimulating antibody resistance ready to take on the real thing. But they are not the only possibility. Now that we have genetic information about the RNA virus that is coronavirus there will be a multitude of avenues being explored as to how the viral mechanisms can be interrupted or how to prevent the virus attaching to cells etc.
If mutation prevents one route then another will be explored. We now have anti-viral drugs for a few viruses and they work, such as acyclovir for herpes. There is no earthly reason why treatment and/or vaccination will not be found.

There will be football again, Hartlepool WILL go up, but England will not find an effective centre-back pairing.
Heaton/Pope, Alexander Arnold, Chillwell, Gomez, Maguire, Henderson, Oxlaide-Chamberlain, Milner/Barkley, Grealish, Kane, Stirling.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:14 pm 
Rather than send out yet another Minister to deliberately avoid answering questions, today they sent out Alok Sharma, who quite genuinely doesn't know the answers


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:57 pm 
He was pathetic. He was asked one question twice about lockdown until a vaccine was found.

And twice he talked about the next 3 weeks.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:59 pm 
Montpoolier wrote:
Please yourself Mr Afar but if you hope the world is getting back to normal any time soon you can always dream.
As I said, I spent 90 minutes reading a dozen different independent professional opinions on this matter. Not one of them sees any happy way out of this.
There are two choices. One causes social rebellion and economic collapse, the other causes a hecatomb. Neither is acceptable but is there a middle ground?
The world has to rethink itself to solve that puzzle. The people who control the money aren't very good at reinventing themselves.


I believe there will be social unrest if this goes on for too long.

It's no good just asking scientists who will willingly say the economic impact isn't their problem.

In that case they need to shut up.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:32 pm 
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To a scientist like myself I agree they don’t and shouldn’t care about the economic impact. They should care about what charco said how the disease works, testing to contain and saving lives.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:04 pm 
If they want funding in the future they had better start caring.

These things go cap in hand.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:28 pm 
At least care enough to come up with suggestions that actually help the economy.

And remember this. The british government are allowing thousands to enter the uk unchecked. The police allowed hundreds to go Westminster bridge.

Yet people fined for sitting on their own on park benches.

Now scientists claiming the lockdown could be terminal. Yet thousands are working in shops and on building sites and they are not socially distancing.

I will give it 4 more weeks before average joe says f*** this. I am going to work and I am going to see my family.

You either lockdown 100% or you carry on and live with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:42 pm 
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Watching from afar wrote:
If they want funding in the future they had better start caring.

These things go cap in hand.


Do you know how much scientific research is funded and it’s the majority is not from UK government.

You are basically advocating what them in USA have been doing. My advise would be stop going out for stupid things and generally do as you are told.

The majority of Joe Public I am sorry to say are morons and if the do go out and to see their family they will be the first screaming for a vaccination or PPE or testing when they take it to their elderly relatives who might die.

When will the world see when all is said and done you can’t eat or breath money and you can’t spend it six feet under.

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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:06 pm 
I am advocating nothing.

I am just saying how I see it. And what I think will happen. And i am not talking about the next three weeks.

There are far more important people than me concerned about the economy. And if we all end up living in caves then the scientists will be joining us. You have any scientific answers for suicides or for people having their homes repossessed?

Give most people a choice in a few months of guaranteeing their homes against risking getting the virus I bet most will risk it. They might have to.

And before you say something else I have my said or done I haven't seen my son for 7 weeks or my father for 6 or my mother in law for 6. And I dont intend to break those curfews.

But I do have a mortgage to pay so you scientific lot can stick your 12 month lockdown where the sun dont shine.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:12 pm 
I have no faith in the science or the government just now. Not your fault obviously. But those so called scientists on that stage group who are working in secret have got nearly everything wrong.

In fact the science is so far apart between scientists its beyond a joke. It appears some scientists are political some are scaremongerers and some have no voice.

I reiterate though the science cannot ignore the economic impact. Not any more. I keep.getting told we are all in this together.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:17 pm 
Obviously we are not all in this together especially since those poor nurses on the frontline will be without PPE this weekend. Just at the time my wife gets told to get ready to join them. Even though she is already.working in the hospital.


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 Post subject: Re: Corona virus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:25 pm 
Have a read of the latest IMF prediction.

This isn't just about those with lots of money. It predicts a grim future for those countries already struggling. 87% of the worlds economies to go into meltdown. Meaning poverty stricken countries will get even poorer.


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The Bunker. The only HUFC forum with correct spelling and grammar.