Crash on M4

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22621

One car being chased by the cops went onto the M4 the wrong way. Undoubtedly it would have been caning it so safe to assume it was flat out or very nearly. It then had a head on crash with another car coming in the other direction.

Car begin persued: probably 120mph+
Car minding its own business 70/80 mph

200 MPH impact. Everyone dead. 3 young men in the first car, a couple in the other.

Death is always round the corner, yesterday has gone, tomorrows is not promised.

parmopooly · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:42 am

very very sad that innocent people have been killed. If there was any justice in the world then the perpetrator would have wiped himself out alone.

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:56 am

Mr I wrote:

Car begin persued: probably 120mph+
Car minding its own business 70/80 mph

200 MPH impact. Everyone dead.

Kinetic energy of 1 tonne car at 200 mph (89.4 m/s) = 1/2 mass x speed x speed = 4 megajoules.

Similarly
Kinetic energy of 1 tonne car at 70 mph = 0.49 megajoules
Kinetic energy of 1 tonne car at 120 mph = 1.44 megajoules
Kinetic energy of vehicles involved in crash = 1.44 + 0.49 = 1.93 megajoules.

OK it's hardly an fair nit to pick when everyone is dead anyway but it's half as spectacular as a 200 mph crash.

I hope they were being chased for something serious.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22621

Hang on a minute...................

One car travelling in one direction @ 120mph
One car travelling in t'other direction @ 80mph
In a head on collision the impact speed is 200mph.

Ok the kinetic energy may differ on an applied physics level but either way its gonna hurt.

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:02 pm

Yeah I know; I said I was nit picking.

grabec · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:04 pm

But you do wonder whether the police ever weigh up the balance of these car chases and whether they think it's just OK to endanger innocent bystanders.
Round this area it's a common thing to have to pull up to let a screaming police car pass...travelling at speeds which mean that any pedestrian getting in the way would just have had it.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22621

grabec wrote:

But you do wonder whether the police ever weigh up the balance of these car chases and whether they think it's just OK to endanger innocent bystanders.
Round this area it's a common thing to have to pull up to let a screaming police car pass...travelling at speeds which mean that any pedestrian getting in the way would just have had it.

The Police abandoned the chase when the car turned onto the M4.

Mr Ripper · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:08 pm

You're right Grabec.

We shouldn't pursue any criminals, it'd be much better to let them all get away.

If they knew they had a clear run to escape they wouldn't drive so dangerously and recklessly either.

Do you read The Guardian?

grabec · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:09 pm

Mr I wrote:

grabec wrote:

But you do wonder whether the police ever weigh up the balance of these car chases and whether they think it's just OK to endanger innocent bystanders.
Round this area it's a common thing to have to pull up to let a screaming police car pass...travelling at speeds which mean that any pedestrian getting in the way would just have had it.

The Police abandoned the chase when the car turned onto the M4.

I hadn't read the details before....I thought you meant the car had sped onoto the wrong carriageway as a result of being police-chased?

grabec · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:10 pm

Mr Ripper wrote:

You're right Grabec.

We shouldn't pursue any criminals, it'd be much better to let them all get away.

If they knew they had a clear run to escape they wouldn't drive so dangerously and recklessly either.

Do you read The Guardian?

Do you read other people's posts??

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:13 pm

I don't know what the chances are of catching a car in a Charlie Sheen type chase so maybe it isn't always a good idea. The cops seem to be pretty handy with helicopters these days; surely that would be a less risky way of tracking them.
Just a thought like.

Mr Ripper · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:14 pm

They catch loads that way on The Bill.

Spender · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:08 pm

If it's all the same to everyone else I'd rather not crash on the M4.

I think I'll just go to bed. confised

It will however be interesting to find out what the pursuit was about and how they came about the speed figures.

Gibsons Beard · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:06 pm

I was driving back from boro today and a car went down the wrong sliproad onto the A66 going the wrong way! It nearly caused a handful of crashes as everyone was busy staring in amazement. I could not see how far he/she got (must be a woman like) before the penny dropped. I just hope it was before there was an impact. :shock:

Gibsons Beard · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:51 pm

MadJohn wrote:

gravedisorder wrote:

I was driving back from boro today and a car went down the wrong sliproad onto the A66 going the wrong way! It nearly caused a handful of crashes as everyone was busy staring in amazement. I could not see how far he/she got (must be a woman like) before the penny dropped. I just hope it was before there was an impact. :shock:

[brrrr brrrr]

"Hello"

"Hi honey, now I don't want to worry you but apparently there's a car going the wrong way down the A66"

"ONE car? There's bloody dozens!"

Boom Boom, very good!

BillinghamPoolie · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:27 pm

It's not a new phenomenon either. My 18 year old cousin was killed by a police car, chasing god knows who, 30 years ago. My Aunt and Uncle were never the same after that. Their daughter goes out on a night out up to Newcastle, and gets knocked down by a speeding police car, as she was crossing the street. December 5th 1977, some things stick in your memory.

parmopooly · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:45 am

chip fireball wrote:

police chasing folk in cars usually ends up with misery for other totally innocent folk. try investigating if for a living.

stolen car is chased by bobbies. smashes into parked car. driver legs it on foot. bobbies catch him.

thief goes to court and is fined 150 quid and banned for a year, even though he is already disqualified.

my client owns the parked car that is written off. his insurers pay him 2 grand to go and get another one less his 400 bar excess.

my client is 400 bar down and loses his no claims bonus so his premiums go up.

the insurer is 2 grand down.

i send out investigators to check out the thief who eventually tracks him down and his report confirms he is on benefits and living in a council house and decide its not cost effective to pursue the fooker through the civil courts. i pay the investigator 200 bar for his report, so my company is 200 down.

the criminal wins, the victims lose. if i had a tenner for evry police chase that ends up with property damage id be a millionaire.

whats the point, mr ripper, in the police chasing them, when the courts do fook all with them when they catch them anyway ?

just about sums it up for me

Mr Ripper · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:46 am

So stop catching them or start punishing them?

Or just let them get away with whatever they wanna do? :roll:

parmopooly · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:33 am

the bloke was stating how it is, not how it could/should be. Although I agree, this offence should be punished with a heavy jail sentence. It is far more serious than, say, not declaring all your VAT or PAYE returns over a period of years. Guess which one carries the biggest sentence though.

grabec · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:35 am

Mr Ripper wrote:

So stop catching them or start punishing them?

Or just let them get away with whatever they wanna do? :roll:

Oh, let them get away with whatever they want to do, naturally. :roll:

Karl Marx · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:23 pm

grabec wrote:

Mr Ripper wrote:

So stop catching them or start punishing them?

Or just let them get away with whatever they wanna do? :roll:

Oh, let them get away with whatever they want to do, naturally. :roll:

Grabec, welcome to the simple world of the Daily Mail reader. All social problems can be reduced to simple slogans with a common sense answer.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 36917

We'll have to learn to differentiate between the police and the courts, catch as many as you like, if the courts are gonna empathise with the guilty party, nothings ever gonna change.

Mr Ripper · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:19 pm

Karl Marx wrote:

grabec wrote:

Mr Ripper wrote:

So stop catching them or start punishing them?

Or just let them get away with whatever they wanna do? :roll:

Oh, let them get away with whatever they want to do, naturally. :roll:

Grabec, welcome to the simple world of the Daily Mail reader. All social problems can be reduced to simple slogans with a common sense answer.

Alternatively, The Guardian readers feel the need to try and overcomplicate everything... :wink:

grabec · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:50 pm

Mr Ripper wrote:

[quote="Karl Marx
Alternatively, The Guardian readers feel the need to try and overcomplicate everything... :wink:

[/quote][/quote]

How much more complicated could it be than it is already? More complicated than people being killed while police are dealing with traffic offences?

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22621

There is a whole lot wrong with the sentencing system in courts, compare these if you will:

Quote:
Jeffrey Archer, whatever you might think of him was treated horendously by the courts. Essentially he stood up in court and lied about sleeping with a prostitute. Something you might think an awful lot of people might do if faced with the accusation. For this he received a sentence of four and a half years. Remember thats for telling a lie.

Quote:

A father whose 23-year-old daughter died in a crash involving a drink driver has said he is pleased the man's jail sentence has been increased. Brian Clulow's daughter Jody died on 8 January last year in the crash in Brielle Way, Isle of Sheppey, Kent. He said he and his wife Christine were flabbergasted when Snow was jailed for 12 months for careless driving while over the drink-drive limit. "It seemed a ludicrous sentence," he said.

Miss Clulow, a trainee teacher, died from head injuries after Snow's car crashed at 80mph in the early hours of the morning.
She was among a group of people who had accepted a lift home from a nightclub with Snow. The Crown Prosecution Service appealed against the sentence, which was imposed after Snow admitted the offence. "We were not vindictive towards Simon Snow," said Mr Clulow. "But the leniency of the sentence was no deterrent.

"Now it has been increased to two-and-a-half years it might stop someone from going out and drinking and possibly having an accident."

Quote:

John Nuttall was stabbed repeatedly during a brawl outside his Bradford home before collapsing and dying in the street.

Yesterday Marc Holton - who had a previous conviction for carrying a knife - was jailed for 3 years and 11 months after admitting a charge of manslaughter. Bradford Crown Court heard how the bloody confrontation in August last year had stemmed from a row over Mr Nuttall's girlfriend buying a dog from his killer's sister. When police arrested Holton, 20, of Copley Street, Little Horton, just hours after the killing, he told them: "He's dead. It was all over a dog."

Robin Frieze, prosecuting, said 22-year-old Mr Nuttall had gone to the home of Holton's sister, Kelly Holton, in an "agitated state" following a dispute over the pet. He later returned to his flat in Terrington Crest, Clayton, where Holton and other family members had arrived. "There was an argument about a dog which developed into a fight. It is unclear who struck the first blow," said Mr Frieze. "During the fight the defendant produced a lock knife and stabbed Mr Nuttall a number of times, including twice in the chest."

Mr Frieze said the fight halted momentarily and Holton was walking away when Mr Nuttall came towards him with a hammer.
Holton later told police he had been struck several times, although medical evidence only showed one wound.
"Having been hit, the defendant countered by pulling out the knife and stabbing Mr Nuttall a number of times, again in the chest," said Mr Frieze.

One wound ruptured Mr Nuttall's heart and another, his lung. He died before reaching hospital.

Bostonpoolie · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:27 pm

and then there is the issue of where to put those that are banged up - this government has been determined to criminalise more and more things, so arrest figures look good - problem is there is no space in the prison system to actually put those that are convicted

parmopooly · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:36 pm

but whatever you do - do NOT steal money from the Government. That is the worst crime any person can commit. :roll:

Crash on M4

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