I have been critical of his recruitment and I am struggling to see a tactical plan but I see little to be gained by sacking him currently.

I think what is needed is a recalibration of expectations and a (even if its private) admission that he got it wrong transfer wise and judging this league. This year is all about survival now.
The test now is of his coaching skills, can he improve/do the best with what he has, and then show in January window he has learned from the experience.

The other question is does he want to be here--One question last week which i thought was interesting, was when he was asked if he is picking everyone else up what picks him up when he is down.
He said chatting to his daughter on the phone--firstly I thought that was a really nice unguarded response-and reminds people beyond the job he is a decent guy with a family etc..--Also the fact he said on the phone made me wonder if he is separated geographically from his family for this job and how tough that might be

Obviously if things go on as bad as they have been his position will become untenable but not really sure we'll gain a lot by removing him.

I do think overall the situation is just a shame--everyone trying to do their best and approach the season a little differently which always has a risk, and so far it appears to be backfiring pretty badly.

disloyal.."I have been critical of his recruitment"

..ridiculous to judge hartley as a manager 7 games in...he definitely made a bad mistake in taking the job without an agreement to bring in his own head of recruitment imo but that's it ...and also far too early to judge the 16 players that have arrived in the 12 weeks since his appointment...unless of course you are the simple type that thinks anyone from jockland must be a sub standard player.. btw ready for the match on saturday are we ?...salivating at the mouth are we ?..this thread being put up by you in preparation ?...disappointed with the outcome last time around ?

"2-0 Colchester, Longstaff on the score sheet.This may be the game Hartley walks or is pushed"

Yes tend to agree we cant constantly change managers unless by xmas we are in deep crap.
Lets hope these next 2 home games give us 4 points.

with respect I think we can make a reasonable judgment on the players based on what we have seen--you are right they may change and develop and it is early days, but a few have a lot of improving to do to be of required standard, similarly a couple i have said look decent (IMO Sylla is the pick of the bunch)
Also your post seems a little confused/conrtadictory--you are saying you cant judge the players yet (fair enough) but he made a 'bad mistake' not bringing his own head of rectruitment....if you cant judge the players how can you say not having his own head of recruitment was a mistake?

disloyal..."if you cant judge the players how can you say not having his own head of recruitment was a mistake?"

..errrr....with respect... think you are misunderstanding me..not judging any players as i say way too early..go have a look at trotter our head of recruitment's c.v...then consider how he became our head of recruitment..he has never kicked a football in his life, his alleged skills lie in computer data analysis, and he was brought in because he was mates with the previous manager and good old bevo..it wasn't an open recruitment process where he was the best candidate ffs...you tell me how can hartley have any confidence in his competence...with his background, mates and pretty much a next door neighbour with the previous boss ?..

https://untypicalboro.wordpress.com/201 ... nt-page-1/

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/chris-trotter-b30185157

https://www.hartlepoolunited.co.uk/news ... cruitment/

With the influx of players and management I expected little at the start of the season, not because of any other reason other than there would be this period of turmoil. Anyone expecting them to hit the pitch performing would be at best sketchy.
It’s a case of keep your nerve for now but there has to be a point where if things don’t improve we have to face facts, but I’m not panicking yet

Results have been less than ideal so far but I want PH to turn a corner as we need stability. If Hartley leaves we’ll be seeing another massive turnover of players next summer no matter the division we’re in which isn’t the way forward for any club.

but you are saying its too early to judge the players...so how can you then say the head of recruitment is terrible when its too early by your definition to judge his work?

Personally i think a lot of the players are substandard and that is the fault of Hartley and Trotter---but you are telling me its too early to say that

The truth is we know next to nothing about how Pools conducts its player recruitment business and are not likely to this side of Hartley leaving - and not even then if there's a non-disclosure agreement. We've signed a lot of young lads and likely haven't seen the best of them yet.

Joe Ramage in the Mail did a decent round up of Pools' transfer business earlier this week:https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/football/success-or-failure-analysing-hartlepool-uniteds-transfer-window-3831721

Pools only paid out for one transfer fee - to Wealdstone for Josh Umerah, while money was coming in from the sale of Bogle and Byrne and the departure of Odusina. If the likes of Murray, Cooke and Hastie really did get big signing-on fees they need to start paying them back on the field pronto!

Cooke I think can come good given a run and a fixed position--he has shown in flashes he is a good player at this level
Hastie - everyone talks about potential but he looks lost and bereft of confidence
Murray I am at a loss to understand how he has been a pro footballer for as long as he has--unless he is still nursing an injury seems way below any professional standard

disloyal..."but you are saying its too early to judge the players...so how can you then say the head of recruitment is terrible when its too early by your definition to judge his work?"

..with respect..again its nothing to do with the players that have come in...they may be shite or top drawer..we will see...so how can i put this..my point is there is no reason for hartley to have any confidence at all in trotters competence for the reasons ive given..the conversation with raj prior to hartleys appointment should have gone something like this..listen raj this bloke trotter your head of recruitment is a buddy of the guy you have just sacked..he has never played the game, has no history as a professional scout and i dont know about all this bloody computer data analysis shite...my job and chances of success with you will rest on the players that i recruit and i need someone who i know and who i can rely on..i dont know this trotter from adam but i do know a number scouts i can trust and that i am confident will do a good job for me you and the club..so look this is the way it is ...either he goes or you need to look elsewhere..up to you..

Think Murray could get a game for Liverpool after last night's defensive masterclass.

so even if Trotters 'computer shite' produces 'top drawer' recruitment you don't /won't rate him?

I am sceptical of his ability also, mainly based on who we have signed--but I am pointing out the irony of you harping on about not pre-judging people 7 games in then doing the same with Trotter

As above think a head of recruitment should be judged on that; the recruitment. The bloke was clearly hired for his relationship with Lee but to claim he doesn’t have any history as a professional scout is laughable. He was a senior scout at Boro and then joined us from Rotherham where he was Chief Scout…
Will give it a while longer to see how players work out but early signs aren’t good for some but are for others

disloyal..."so even if Trotters 'computer shite' produces 'top drawer' recruitment you don't /won't rate him?"

...before he was offered the job absolutely no reason for hartley to rate or trust trotter ...none ..zero...so why he agreed to give it a go is beyond me..as i say for me hartley's mistake in signing scott harrison when he was at falkirk would rank on the same level of crazy..

Must admit I preferred the old method of a manger having experienced scouts, the elevation of computer kids to this level is akin to relying on pure data ie stats and there’s always more to a player than just his record on the pitch which can only be picked up by scouts in the know.

really in old money the recruitment bloke would have been called the chief scout. however in todays world a fancy title has to be put on somebody. you can have all the videos of any player you think about and it really only tells you one thing, what they do with the ball. not what and where they are without it which is equally important. those who watch a game on ifollow will have a far different outlook on players themselves than if you watch it live, unless you only watch the bloke in possesion and not the wider game. if this computer approach is proved to be better than the old days of the chief scout with others usually ex players, mates of the manager passing on information above then i,ll be happy to be proved wrong.

Murray 28yrs of age, How many games has he actually played in his career?

Just under 200 looking at Wikipedia in an 11 year career, not very many ?i

Hartley is begining to grate a bit now, going on and on about needing more at the top end of the pitch, WE KNOW Paul.
But have you ever considered one or two decent CBs, Not rocket science is it, Paul.

This post gives the impression that there are no scouts. I listened to an interview with Tommy Widdrington who acted as recruitment officer for Bristol Rovers he described it as follows - The manager states what he is looking for e.g a left sided central defender - the recruiting officer then contacts his scouts and request they make a search and after looking at them report back to which this is passed to the manager who decides to take it further.
Personally I doubt if the recruiting bloke had much to do with the Scots we have signed.

Wonder why, I,m sure we all have our opinions.

hound.."Murray 28yrs of age, How many games has he actually played in his career?"

..how many games has jamie sterry played in his career ?....26 yrs of age and only 2 years younger than murray...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Sterry

The figure for Murray of 200 appearances in 11 seasons is deceptive as it gave an average of 18 games a season, checking the stats, like most players, their appearances are sparse in the early years, the bulk of his games were in the last few years. This is quite common, but stats can be presented to suit an agenda.
I am not commenting on his ability, just stating the facts over his appearance.

I have a few comments on his ability based on what I have seen so far....

Funny when we signed him his old clubs fans liked him and said he would 'stroll it' in this division...didn't realize they meant it literally!

Something off the pitch?

[quote="poolie1"]hound.."Murray 28yrs of age, How many games has he actually played in his career?"

..how many games has jamie sterry played in his career ?....26 yrs of age and only 2 years younger than murray...


stats are great but only tell you a part of the story. how many games was ruby available for against the number he did play. has he been injury or illness prone{he,s at a good club now if he is}. this is the problem with scottish players as we have never seen em play or no anyone who has. most poolies might not have seen say someone from bradford but there is a good chance some exile has to compare them with how they are now to where they were with them.