Clarence 18 Limited

Brian Honour's Left Foot · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:08 pm

Can anyone please explain note 8 to the financial statements of Clarence 18 Limited for the year ended 31 July 2021 - just submitted and I'm not sure that I understand this note. Thank you.

Poolie24 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:49 pm

From my understanding, and I’m no accountant, but Clarence 18 Limited being the parent company to Hartlepool United, it appears that Pools have started the process of paying off a loan from Clarence 18 Limited - basically Raj, for the sum of £1,050,000.

Brian Honour's Left Foot · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:08 pm

But hasn't HUFC Limited not taken on a bigger loan from Sports England? So has that loan been used to pay back some of the loan from Raj? Apologies to those who are brighter/ more knowledgeable, but I don't understand this.

Poolie27 · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:08 pm **Posts:** 715

That's interesting. Do company/ FA rules/ Sports England

allow money borrowed in this fashion to be used to pay director type loans

KeithNobbsBigToe · **Joined:** Wed May 01, 2013 11:32 pm **Posts:** 1057

I'm no accountant but to be it looks to me like pools are around £3.5 million in the red.

£2.2 million give or take to Raj
and £1.3 give or take to Sage

Need another couple of cup runs

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37433

Football club in debt….. shock horror. It’s just the way of the world.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 19720

if all rge clubs not in debt were the only ones allowed to play they,d be playing each other 6 times a season just to reach 40 games.

Grayhoundend · **Joined:** Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:13 pm **Posts:** 7473

Watching the Detectives
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Qnt5bx1OI

Who gives a flying, Just get me tin hat.

And yes if i won the lottery pools would not be in debt.

Jamie1952 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:56 pm **Posts:** 7416

Men Utd have over 500 millions pounds of debt, ok they can service it but it’s eye watering, the owners use Man Utd to fund their USA companies.

kevin pooles gloves · **Joined:** Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:28 pm **Posts:** 9527

Debt.
Just take it to ya grave.
Then its gone.

Bluestreak · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:19 am

Brian Honour's Left Foot wrote:

Can anyone please explain note 8 to the financial statements of Clarence 18 Limited for the year ended 31 July 2021 - just submitted and I'm not sure that I understand this note. Thank you.

£2175 fully provided for in previous years (full bad debt provision to cover amount). Now being repaid?Someone mention £1m from Sports England?
The dark art of Football club accounting.

Kallang Poolie · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:21 am

The accounts don't look to bad to me. Certainly a lot better than some football clubs accounts I have seen in the past!

The Sport England money may have been a grant.

Flying Hogans · **Joined:** Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:29 pm **Posts:** 5527

kevin pooles gloves wrote:

Debt.
Just take it to ya grave.
Then its gone.

As Little Bobby Thompson used to say, "Get some debt!"

Good advice when inflation is running high as it shrinks the value of any old debt you have. Unfortunately, it does the same to wages and savings

Bluestreak · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:33 am

Flying Hogans wrote:

kevin pooles gloves wrote:

Debt.
Just take it to ya grave.
Then its gone.

As Little Bobby Thompson used to say, "Get some debt!"

Good advice when inflation is running high as it shrinks the value of any old debt you have. Unfortunately, it does the same to wages and savings

"I am up to my neck in debt i only wish i was a bit taller." The Little Waster.

thetownendfaithful · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:42 am

Kallang Poolie wrote:

The accounts don't look to bad to me. Certainly a lot better than some football clubs accounts I have seen in the past!

The Sport England money may have been a grant.

It is down as liability which suggests it needs paying back. Looks like this replaced the usual 1m Raj/Clarence 18 puts in. Debt is not necessarily bad for business, just has to be managed correctly.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 19720

And yes if i won the lottery pools would not be in debt.[/quote]
then you would be entering the murky world of accountants who would come up with some scheme were you and the club would both be better off if you left the club in debt.

Bluestreak · **Posted:** Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:50 am

Did anyone get to the bottom of this?

Jamie1952 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:56 pm **Posts:** 7416

accrington fan wrote:

And yes if i won the lottery pools would not be in debt.

then you would be entering the murky world of accountants who would come up with some scheme were you and the club would both be better off if you left the club in debt.[/quote]

Fella won the lottery he ‘invested’ it in Livingston FC, lost the lot, penniless and now on the dole.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/lottery-w ... ld-2443470

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37433

I always thought that would be great if you won mega millions….. but your life wouldn’t be worth living. You’d have to move out of town to avoid the semi literate ‘experts’ telling you were you’re going wrong every time one collared you.
People who are certified illiterate, would be giving you their deluded advice on how to spend your money.
Better off being a silent partner, because no matter how much you pump into a club, if you don’t bring success, the ‘gumby’s’ will bore you to death.

derwent · **Joined:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:59 pm **Posts:** 12363

Snowy wrote:

I always thought that would be great if you won mega millions….. but your life wouldn’t be worth living. You’d have to move out of town to avoid the semi literate ‘experts’ telling you were you’re going wrong every time one collared you.
People who are certified illiterate, would be giving you their deluded advice on how to spend your money.
Better off being a silent partner, because no matter how much you pump into a club, if you don’t bring success, the ‘gumby’s’ will bore you to death.

Isn't that the truth.

I think I would make a donation to the club with specific instructions on how it was to be spent.
The first thing I'd do would be to facilitate access to your favourite spot in the ground, Snowy.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37433

I’d prioritise that accommodation hitch, but wouldn’t tell the wife I’d bought it….she’d want to come and change things…. I’d just tell her Ratboy needed exercise, he’s looking peaky…….I dunno if she’d twig the timing coincided with the fixture list and even if Ratboy would enjoy it, but he’d adapt.
I could just see anyone criticising the club online if she bought it, she’d hunt them down with dogs and the ‘Four Sisters of the Apocalypse’ and bar them for this life and the next. :laugh:

Jamie1952 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:56 pm **Posts:** 7416

Snowy wrote:

I’d prioritise that accommodation hitch, but wouldn’t tell the wife I’d bought it….she’d want to come and change things…. I’d just tell her Ratboy needed exercise, he’s looking peaky…….I dunno if she’d twig the timing coincided with the fixture list and even if Ratboy would enjoy it, but he’d adapt.
I could just see anyone criticising the club online if she bought it, she’d hunt them down with dogs and the ‘Four Sisters of the Apocalypse’ and bar them for this life and the next. :laugh:

Judging by the current criticism there wouldn’t be many fans left.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 19720

Snowy wrote:

I always thought that would be great if you won mega millions….. but your life wouldn’t be worth living. You’d have to move out of town to avoid the semi literate ‘experts’ telling you were you’re going wrong every time one collared you.
People who are certified illiterate, would be giving you their deluded advice on how to spend your money.
Better off being a silent partner, because no matter how much you pump into a club, if you don’t bring success, the ‘gumby’s’ will bore you to death.

whatever you did and even if it brought success on the pitch there would be some gobshite on your back for mistakes they think you made. even if you got the price of the chips reduced they,d come back at you if they thought the portions were reduced. trouble is it would be hard to denote a big cash amount to the club and keeping quiet about it. you,d have to tell somebody and the amount would be exagerated each time the info gets passed on.

derwent · **Joined:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:59 pm **Posts:** 12363

I really don't see why people like Raj put up with the flak. It is self inflicted pain.
I'm glad he saved the club and grateful but I still don't understand it. Inevitably abuse is spread out to other members of the family and that can never be justified.

Brian Honour's Left Foot · **Posted:** Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:53 pm

Mr Derwent, I asked a question. Where was the abuse? And yes, we are all grateful that Raj stepped in to save Pools.

derwent · **Joined:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:59 pm **Posts:** 12363

Brian Honour's Left Foot wrote:

Mr Derwent, I asked a question. Where was the abuse? And yes, we are all grateful that Raj stepped in to save Pools.

When and where did you ask the question and to whom. I can't find it on this thread and I can't be arsed to look any further for your question. I have literally just come through the door, having been to the match.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37433

derwent wrote:

Brian Honour's Left Foot wrote:

Mr Derwent, I asked a question. Where was the abuse? And yes, we are all grateful that Raj stepped in to save Pools.

When and where did you ask the question and to whom. I can't find it on this thread and I can't be arsed to look any further for your question. I have literally just come through the door, having been to the match.

Was it a general comment about the abuse most chairman get off the uneducated and ignorant supporters of all clubs now and then but extend that abuse illogically to those close to the chairman for god knows what reason other than crude bullying….?

derwent · **Joined:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:59 pm **Posts:** 12363

Snowy wrote:

derwent wrote:

Brian Honour's Left Foot wrote:

Mr Derwent, I asked a question. Where was the abuse? And yes, we are all grateful that Raj stepped in to save Pools.

When and where did you ask the question and to whom. I can't find it on this thread and I can't be arsed to look any further for your question. I have literally just come through the door, having been to the match.

Was it a general comment about the abuse most chairman get off the uneducated and ignorant supporters of all clubs now and then but extend that abuse illogically to those close to the chairman for god knows what reason other than crude bullying….?

That's all it can be as far as I can tell but it's the "I asked a question" that puzzled me.
As far as abuse club owners get from time to time, it's fairly well known, so I can't see why anyone would question it's existence. Maybe Mr honour will explain what he wants to know in due course, and if i can help I will do so.

poolie1 · **Joined:** Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:45 pm **Posts:** 2002

derwent .."Maybe Mr honour will explain what he wants to know in due course, and if i can help I will do so."

..please note brain regularly visits companies house...and then comes on here saying "help me i don't understand".. thinks he's being clever like ..inept and poorly disguised digging for shit..

Brian Honour's Left Foot · **Posted:** Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:10 am

Apologies Mr Derwent if my first two posts weren't clear. Fortunately Messrs Poolie 24, Poolie 27 and KeithNobbsBigToe provided some answers/ additional observations.

derwent · **Joined:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:59 pm **Posts:** 12363

Brian Honour's Left Foot wrote:

Apologies Mr Derwent if my first two posts weren't clear. Fortunately Messrs Poolie 24, Poolie 27 and KeithNobbsBigToe provided some answers/ additional observations.

No problem Mr Honour. As long as you're happy with the answers you got, we move on.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22665

People do get all grassy knoll about directors loans and inter company loans. In this case Raj Singh took over a club worth zilch and refinanced it. The transfers are mostly tax reduction related. When all said and done, he's moving money from one pocket to another when he owns both pockets.

derwent · **Joined:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:59 pm **Posts:** 12363

Mr Irrelevant wrote:

People do get all grassy knoll about directors loans and inter company loans. In this case Raj Singh took over a club worth zilch and refinanced it. The transfers are mostly tax reduction related. When all said and done, he's moving money from one pocket to another when he owns both pockets.

Spot on.

Clarence 18 Limited

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