Brexit is becoming like Pools, people just going around in circles. Andrew Marr this morning asked Corbyn would he reduce immigration, the same question he asked 2 years ago.

And did Corbyn give a straight answer?

Brexit is the biggest constitutional and diplomatic change this county has made since World War 2, possibly since the Acts of Union. If it can be sorted out in a decade they've done a good job.

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Brexit is the biggest constitutional and diplomatic change this county has made since World War 2, possibly since the Acts of Union. If it can be sorted out in a decade they've done a good job.

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.......could this happen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_PzMSw6jZo

I just picture this been enacted on the Irish border with all the locals cheering on with pints of Guinness in hand.
It would be great for tourism!!

Not sure if it could also be done in Dover or Calais or on a purpose built barge in the channel

What like this? Seaborne Freight
Always did wounder where the Middleton Ferry ended up

.......could this happen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_PzMSw6jZo

such as raising min wage to a tenner, that would take away the attraction for greedy employers to want to employ immigrants on lower wages

But not all employers are greedy and take home 6 or 7 figure salaries and bonuses.
Most employers pay themselves enough to get by while creating jobs for people on what they can afford to pay them.
Its a vicious circle, raise the minimum to £10 an hour, not forgetting that you have to increase the pay for the more experienced staff to keep a fair differential, then you put prices up to cover the rises. The knock on effect means everything goes up in price so people are no better off.

Brexit won’t happen.

So you ignore the bit about wage differentials then? If I kept the same number of staff and kept the differentials then that would add over £1k to my weekly wage bill. That would finish my business if I did that. I have lots of business connections who run similar sized businesses and they all say the same, they would have to cut staff to survive. And none of these business owners are rich in the way you think they are.
Typical socialist thinking, that all business owners are loaded, let’s squeeze money out of them they don’t have!
And you wonder why labour had to go Tory lite to get back into power all them years ago.
As for an agenda, yes I want the business I have run for 20 years to survive and for all my staff to keep their jobs. If that’s a bad thing then I’m guilty of having an agenda.
I know what’s best for my business, not some out of touch politician who thinks he knows best because he has some utopian ideals that have failed to work wherever they have been implemented.

Right on cue here’s one of the painfully ignorant thickets that bought some lies and helped bring about this shambles, today children he’s suggesting we shoot immigrants can I smell Gammon?

Brexit won’t happen.

Did anyone watch the film last week Brexit - The Uncivil War with benedict Cumberbatch playing the Brexit strategist Cummings. It shows how ruthless the Brexit team were and what they seem to have got away with. How they haven’t been taken to task for pressurising ordinary undecided people to vote leave. I must not forget the parts the odious Farage and Banks played.
It would seem Esther McVey on BBC news this morning is pretty keen to crash out without a deal

Typical Capitalist, wants to keep all his money, and pay his workers the minimum wage, or less if the min wage wasn't law implemented by politicians , laws and politicians the Capitalists would rather not have , because businessmen and people with letters behind their name know best. Socialism rarely works because Capitalists throw everything but the kitchen sink at in , billions of pounds in monetary terms , to make sure it won't work, why? because they are shit scared of it working because it would hit their profits and funnel money into the workers pockets , as it did in the period between the war and Thatcher, that was Socialism working. You continue been an unhappy greedy Capitalist , because lets face other than the really rich, people who think about nothing but money and what they haven't got are generally unhappy, the dislike of people who have nowt, the attempts at trying to make people think they are kind and caring, all a load of horse shit. Capitalists and business people generally care about no one but themselves.

It's an interesting point Montpoolier. The reality is that nothing depresses wage growth like doubling the work force. You've got a work force full of married men providing for their family. They need a full wage. Meanwhile, you've got a group of ladies wanting to work and make an extra bit, the majority of whom already have husbands at work providing for the family. As such, they will work for less. Why then, would you pay a man a full wage to do a job a lady would do for half of the money? As times passed, men and women's wage have gotten closer, but are obviously not equal yet. At one point this became the target, and quite rightly so. However, all it did was accelerate the decrease in the average income. Same logic applies to immigration.

What a minimum wage does is acts as a safeguard to make sure dodgy business owners aren't constantly undercutting employees unfairly. It's not a perfect science and does have some unwanted side effects, but acts as a safeguard.

The minimum wage whilst well intentioned has been a disaster for workers, male and female. Whilst some in sweatshops went up from 4 pound to 7 lots more have seen their wages fall from 10 to 7 and 15 to 10, a boon for employers. In the old days you had a bus driver and a conductor, they took away the conductor and gave the driver half the conductors pay to do two jobs, over time the driver ending up doing two jobs for only one persons pay, again a great con by employers, that's why you need unions. Of course there is a way around this, raise wages funded through higher taxation mainly of the filthy rich, job shares, lower the retirement age and shorter working week, none of which are mentioned by any government, in fact they have actually raised the retirement age, hoping that you die before you get to claim your state pension.
The economy and small businesses survived the initial introduction of a minimum wage under New Labour (bloody Tory lite), because more people had money to spend to buy their services, meaning it ultimately balanced out with time. I am yet to be convinced that this would not happen again in the future.

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There is no doubt that there is a lot of unfairness in the policies of the austerity driven government we currently have in control but I don't see that Corbyn et al would be able to handle the changes necessary to re align the situation. I say this because I firmly believe that the people behind Corbyn will not only want to redress the situation but also would not know where to stop. Once they taste blood they will keep going, just like Thatcher did, and take us to the other extreme.
I want a middle of the road, moderate regime which is socialist leaning. I don't want us to go from one extreme to the other and I also believe that the country wants that.
Under Corbyn, a Momentum driven Corbyn, we would be in danger of returning to the us and them conflicts of the past.
That is why I will never vote for Corbyn. I don't think he is strong enough to control momentum or the Unions and will take us back years.
We need a blend of the best of both Capitalism and Socialism with no place at the table for either extreme faction.
That's what we should be aiming for. I admit I'm aiming high but why not. The higher you aim the higher you go.

It was never meant to happen in the first place, otherwise Cameron would never have called the vote.

Lies and propaganda convinced enough people to vote leave, and it was clear very early on that leaving would be an impossible task that would leave the country in a worse position. An undeliverable fantasy.

So the last 2 years have been all about keeping up the charade to save losing face. In a way I kind of admire the Tories for being able to kick it down the road this far, although it seems like they will need to extend the timescale in order to have another referendum.

Whats the chances there will be 3 questions on the next referendum :-
1. Stay
2. Leave with a deal
3. Leave
The second two options will split the leave vote so stay will win.

What like this? Seaborne Freight

Or maybe it's the first two that would split the stay vote.

The three-question approach would be ambiguous, dare I say even duplicitous.
You have to cater for the eventuality of two referenda, and you have to hold them separately, and hard fucking cheese if it causes moans and panic in the administration and among voters: this is the future of a country we're talking about.

If you put all the questions on the same sheet, even with conditional clauses, people will vote on a confusion of issues instead of voting clearly on each one.

First off, ideally you have to oblige voters to read the agreement, or whatever alternative plan the govt. can come up with in 3 days. I'm willing to wager that only a small fraction of the population will have done so. The fact that such a course of action is impractical, and in any case parliament has absolutely done that already to save you the bother, the validity of even asking the first question is highly questionable — but hey:

Q1. Parliament has rejected the government's proposed EU exit agreement with a supermajority.
Do you also reject the agreement: yes or no.

If no wins, parliament is overruled (!) and the deal goes through.
If yes wins: referendum 2.

Q2. Given that there is not and will never be another deal on the table, therefore to leave means leaving on 29th May and not a day later, without any deal at all,
Do you still want the UK to leave the EU: yes or no?

What like this? Seaborne Freight

Sorry Derwent but your argument is all over the place. First of all Corbyn isn't that left leaning, he only appears so because everyone else is so right leaning. Secondly the tories and Capitalists don't get into bed with anyone, that is seen as weak, its their way or the highway, the very attitude that encourages extremism. As for a moderate regime that is Socialist leaning, I think you are a Liberal at heart. What are these conflicts you talk of? the ones that got workers more pay? and the creation of laws that made the country a better place? the 60s and 70s weren't a time of conflict , they were a time of progress and advancement for ordinary people.