People still blaming the manager...

PJPoolie · **Joined:** Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:28 pm **Posts:** 15342

Seriously what did anyone expect to change?

We are down to around 13 senior players, the back four is the worst we have ever fielded with no scope to change things. The Trust statement basically confirms what we thought thinking logically that they are not looking to recruit a new manager as the club is insolvent. They have just took a punt thinking getting rid of Harrison can’t make things any worse.

I’m no fan of Bates massively but you can’t really attach any blame to him here, what is he meant to do? It’s a hopeless situation. It just highlights again something that has been said time and again our troubles are way beyond the manager. It’s an impossible job. We might win a few because plenty of other teams in this League are as bad as us but we’ll certainly lose a few as well with this group of players who are essentially who we have been left with because no clubs were even prepared to offer a little bit of cash for. It’s the dregs.

Double Figures · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:47 am **Posts:** 845

If it’s clear the players don’t want to play for him we don’t need him either. He brings nothing and is likely part of the problem. He’s been there all season and has developed an unfit and demotivated squad of full time professionals. Of course we can blame him. Things are extremely difficult yes but he has to bring passion and drive and there is none. We waited for Harrison to do that. We give people too much time.

PJPoolie · **Joined:** Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:28 pm **Posts:** 15342

The players are shit I don’t think they are good enough to pick and choose who they want to play for. Passion? It’s just a cliche it doesn’t win football matches.

congress_tart · **Posted:** Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:27 pm

If you have two centre halves that can’t header, can’t mark and get caught with every simple ball over the top then it does not matter who is in charge.

He couldn’t do much else tactically or with his starting 11, and he or anyone else can’t bring anyone in.

Just got to hope that we get some injured players back and we manage to outscore the opposition in the six pointers coming up.

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

I honestly think we'd look stronger with kids at the back. I've largely lost interest though so not even sure who we have anymore.

Double Figures · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:47 am **Posts:** 845

The players are good enough to get a draw at home if they were organised and all had the desire. I’d like anyone to do it but not Bates. I don’t think he cares what happens. He’ll go from here to boros youth team. He has no real ambition. We need a fresh approach from somebody but won’t get it I know.

PJPoolie · **Joined:** Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:28 pm **Posts:** 15342

Above all the players need to play for themselves. It’s unlikeky any of them will be at Pools next season. I think you can make a case for a fair few not being good enough to continue in professional football. How else tactically can we set up with the players we have left? We haven’t got a balanced squad or options from the bench we have the players we were left with after a 12 month fire sale. I’m not sure throwing kids into a tough physical league is the way forward, it’s obvious the feeling is none of them are ready or good enough. I’d rather see Harrison and Laing making tits of themselves than see a kid getting destroyed.

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

It will be a test of character that's for sure but with very little pressure. If managed correctly (I know, sorry!) they could thrive
given the opportunity. No one can say they aren't good enough when they haven't been given the chance and also when they're compared to what currently is classed as first team worthy.

PJPoolie · **Joined:** Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:28 pm **Posts:** 15342

Very little pressure in front of an element of our support, are you sure!? The haters don’t discriminate on any grounds including age if you are on the pitch then you are fair game!

I just think that if the feeling was that if any of them were ready or thought to be up to first team football then they’d have already been given an opportunity given how dreadful some of the players are. It’s a situation that’s a bit like sacking Harrison really, it couldn’t make the situation any worse but I don’t see the merit in blooding kids who aren’t good enough.

Monkeybutt · **Joined:** Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:22 pm **Posts:** 2428

3,000 people know that the back 4 are as useful as rubber lips on a woodpecker, I was hoping Bates had a brain fart, grew a spine and played some decent kids, we do have a few but recycled shit is still shit

Grayhoundend · **Joined:** Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:13 pm **Posts:** 7507

No good blaming Bates, He could have said no like others did this week.
I congratulate him for stepping up.
You can have poor players, But there is no excuse for being disorganised.

Malcolm Dawes Knew My Father · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2011 4:25 pm **Posts:** 4198

Double Figures wrote:

The players are good enough to get a draw at home if they were organised and all had the desire. I’d like anyone to do it but not Bates. I don’t think he cares what happens. He’ll go from here to boros youth team. He has no real ambition. We need a fresh approach from somebody but won’t get it I know.

This monomania of yours has already got very old - give it a rest, can't you?

I was actually at the game yesterday (were you?) and can only confirm what others have said - this is the worst Pools back four in living memory and until the transfer embargo is lifted or Donnelly and Ledger get fit enough to play regularly we are going to concede goals for fun. Ebbsfleet were nothing special but playing into the wind first half the Pools back four was as weak as a bowl of thin gruel. 5-0 at half-time would have been a reasonable score. As it was only 1 most of us poor sods who went hung on till the final whistle in hopes of an equaliser.

Laing (especially), Blair and Harrison were beyond terrible. Magnay barely passes muster as a full back and is a useless captain - unless finger pointing after one of your own mistakes counts as captaincy. There's bugger all point in bringing in a new manager (paid for with what?) unless the embargo is lifted and he can get some players in on loan.

PJPoolie · **Joined:** Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:28 pm **Posts:** 15342

Do we have centre backs who are physically ready to play at National League level? Reserve and youth team football is virtually a non contract sport compared to some of the strikers they would come up against at first team level. I remember that kid James Martin getting absolutely torn apart against Cambridge last season they deliberately targeted him second half when we shipped 5 goals it was sad to watch they have got to be able to look after that side of the game or they will get destroyed. I think that was his last game after looking a promising little player until that.

Football wise they might be alright but that’s not even half the battle at this level. It’s all well and good saying throw in kids but doing so if they aren’t ready can destroy them for good.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22669

Many years of neglect has led to this. We have players who can't play led by a manager who can't manage and directors only know where they are going shortly after taking a laxative.

Malcolm Dawes Knew My Father · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2011 4:25 pm **Posts:** 4198

PJPoolie wrote:

Do we have centre backs who are physically ready to play at National League level? Reserve and youth team football is virtually a non contract sport compared to some of the strikers they would come up against at first team level. I remember that kid James Martin getting absolutely torn apart against Cambridge last season they deliberately targeted him second half when we shipped 5 goals it was sad to watch they have got to be able to look after they side of the game or they will get destroyed.

Football wise they might be alright but that’s not even half the battle at this level. It’s all well and good saying throw in kids but doing so if they aren’t ready can destroy them for good.

It's a good point. I'm scratching my head wondering how a perpetually skint Pools of the 70s could have outstanding no-nonsense players and characters like Potter, Goad, Dawes, Green, Smith and Ayre in defence and be saddled with such useless lightweights today? It's not all about the way refereeing has changed - the teams we keep coming up against in this league aren't lacking in physicality and know how to play hard within the limits of what the refs will let them get away with. It's not the Premier League!

Monkeybutt · **Joined:** Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:22 pm **Posts:** 2428

PJPoolie wrote:

Do we have centre backs who are physically ready to play at National League level? Reserve and youth team football is virtually a non contract sport compared to some of the strikers they would come up against at first team level. I remember that kid James Martin getting absolutely torn apart against Cambridge last season they deliberately targeted him second half when we shipped 5 goals it was sad to watch they have got to be able to look after that side of the game or they will get destroyed. I think that was his last game after looking a promising little player until that.

Football wise they might be alright but that’s not even half the battle at this level. It’s all well and good saying throw in kids but doing so if they aren’t ready can destroy them for good.

Jacob Owen is a better player and big for his age and really in the scheme of things, can he be any worse?

Calamity Laing and Flapper Harrison are not a benchmark but should be on it, stick a midfielder back there or Cassidy, somebody with a brain would be a bonus, we have kids who can score and not one on the bench yesterday, 3 midfielders on bench!!!!

mib1975 · **Joined:** Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:02 pm **Posts:** 308

Hate this"kids can't do any worse" craic. ..kids are bottom of there league reserves are bottom of there league put kids in and you get beat 8 or 9 nil so yes they can do worse .

Monkeybutt · **Joined:** Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:22 pm **Posts:** 2428

mib1975 wrote:

Hate this"kids can't do any worse" craic. ..kids are bottom of there league reserves are bottom of there league put kids in and you get beat 8 or 9 nil so yes they can do worse .

Not all shite, 3 decent ones with a blend of experience and wisdom, ah fuck it, I started laughing as i wrote the last bit : :laugh:

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37451

Double Figures wrote:

If it’s clear the players don’t want to play for him we don’t need him either.

The players are paid to play, not take a wobbly if hey don't approve and sulk. We had that crap attitude towards the end of last season.

mib1975 · **Joined:** Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:02 pm **Posts:** 308

Class monkeybutt! !

Double Figures · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:47 am **Posts:** 845

Look Malcolm I’m not sure what monomania is, but I’m tired of people saying the players aren’t good enough. That’s not the case. They need motivating nit telling them they are the worst tram in living memory over and over again. Is that monomania?

PJPoolie · **Joined:** Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:28 pm **Posts:** 15342

I think there’s some sort of parallel universe going on here and in the other one the club isn’t insolvent. How can people to seriously be calling for and have any expectations of a new manager being appointed? It’s absolutely bizarre. To be fair I didn’t expect them to get rid of Harrison but how can we possibly employ a manager!!!?

Yubep · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:35 pm **Posts:** 25266

Double Figures wrote:

Look Malcolm I’m not sure what monomania is, but I’m tired of people saying the players aren’t good enough. That’s not the case. They need motivating nit telling them they are the worst tram in living memory over and over again. Is that monomania?

I fully respect your opinion but on what evidence do you have to suggest this group of failures are good enough?

The new signings aren’t. And the ones from last season are serial losers who have been nothing but shite the whole time we have had to watch them here.

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Monkeybutt · **Joined:** Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:22 pm **Posts:** 2428

Double Figures wrote:

Look Malcolm I’m not sure what monomania is, but I’m tired of people saying the players aren’t good enough. That’s not the case. They need motivating nit telling them they are the worst tram in living memory over and over again. Is that monomania?

Did you lose your train of thought there and go off track?

Double Figures · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:47 am **Posts:** 845

Haha I went off the rails some time ago. The players have more potential than they are showing now that’s for certain. The defence are experienced enough. Utd work and desire is obviously missing and I don’t think bates has it either. Happy to be proved wrong but I think he has run out of steam.

Double Figures · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:47 am **Posts:** 845

Haha I went off the rails some time ago. The players have more potential than they are showing now that’s for certain. The defence are experienced enough. Utd work and desire is obviously missing and I don’t think bates has it either. Happy to be proved wrong but I think he has run out of steam.

TalbotAvenger · **Posted:** Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:28 pm

Monkeybutt wrote:

3,000 people know that the back 4 are as useful as rubber lips on a woodpecker, I was hoping Bates had a brain fart, grew a spine and played some decent kids, we do have a few but recycled shit is still shit

It's like cliche central on here, perhaps we should give the following advice Jeremy gives to Mark on Peep Show to Master Bates

Jeremy Usborne: Christ, Mark. You really need to grow a pair.
Mark Corrigan: Of testicles?
Jeremy Usborne: Yes.
Mark Corrigan: You want me to grow a pair of testicles so I'd have four testicles and somehow that'll help make me braver and better to deal with stress? Staggering around like a baboon with four balls hanging down?
Jeremy Usborne: Look, Gail's fucking you over because you're so bloody passive. You need to rip her a new one.
Mark Corrigan: A new anus? So she'd have two anuses? And then in this mad new world of yours, I'd presumably shove my four bollocks up her two anuses for some unknown reason.

Smokin Joe · **Joined:** Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:13 pm **Posts:** 1113

As someone mentioned elsewhere, if Bates really does have the interests of the club at heart he would get himself fit enough to be able to step in and replace the embarrassment that is Lana Laing as soon as practicably possible. Desperate times call for desperate measures however suspicions remain that Bates has rather more ambition for his restaurant than the much more challenging task of turning Pools around.

frankie1966 · **Joined:** Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:44 am **Posts:** 273

The players are fat and unfit, because of this they cannot perform to the best of their ability.
They run out of steam in the second half, that's why we concede so many late goals.
Featherstone adjusting his shirt all game to try and hide his spare tyre is laughable to watch.
They should all be ashamed of themselves, but why and how were they allowed to get like this?
The other week Harrison gave them three days off for fucks sake, you couldn't make it up.
The place must be like a holiday camp for them.
They are all stealing a wage and I hope and expect the majority of them to be on the dole next season.

horden · **Posted:** Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:03 am

phil wrote:

I've been arguing all season that the problem wasn't Harrison (although it's clear he wasn't the solution either) and this runs far far deeper.

Whilst our defence has been bad this season, they've had absolutely no support from the midfield. Our midfield is the biggest problem for me, and they can't create anything and don't stop the other team from walking through our pathetic defence.

Hawkins, Featherstone and Woods have made up the core of our central midfield since Colin Cooper. That's Murray, Moore, Collins, Hignett, Jones, Harrison and Bates that have all been trying to fit them in somewhere, and they've all failed. Anyone else we have signed have astonishingly managed to be as bad or worse. So long as these three are in the spine of our team, we haven't got a chance, because the qualities they have are limited by their huge weaknesses.

Hawkins has a great engine, but he has zero technical ability. Featherstone has some technical ability and a decent understanding of the game, but he's as fat as butter and lacks any urgency as a result. Woods has a great attitude, but he can't last more than 70 minutes at the tempo he wants to play and if he does his legs drop off. In the right circumstances, all three have the potential to be handy players. In this team they are liabilities.

George started yesterday instead of Hawkins, and has gone under the radar a little bit. What does he actually do? He seemed to lose every challenge he went in for and play every pass out for a throw in. He occupies the same space as Featherstone, meaning that Featherstone can't do the one thing he can do well, distribution, because George was always in his way. Playing two holding midfielders against Ebbsfleet at home and doubling up on a part time striker that looked like he'd been picked out of the queue for the burger van. Pretty depressing really.

The other thing every manager from Cooper to Bates has had in common is Scott Harrison. He did marginally better than Laing yesterday, but then again so did I and I wasn't on the pitch. He's looked decent alongside experienced heads that can talk him through matches, but he's a liability when he hasn't got that. Safe to say Laing is not who he needs to be partnered with.

Another thing that really stood out to me yesterday was how bad our players are at the basics of the game. None of our players can control a ball without it flying into the air. None of our players can run in a straight line with the ball. None of our players can win a tackle without it deflecting back into the path of the attacker. None of them can stay on the pitch for 90 minutes. None of them can even make a simple decision like when to clear a ball and when to try and control it.

It's reached the point where I actually think 11 blokes from the crowd could do better. In all seriousness, if I'd had as long to get match fit as Blair Adams or Luke George have had this season, I could play as many crosses into the keepers hands, misplace as many passes and lose as many tackles as they did.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter who our manager is. It's not mattered who the manager has been for a long time. The team is shockingly bad. Worse than anything I've seen. There is a core of losers at the club who think winning a game 3-2 when it was 3-0 at half time is something to cheer. The boardroom is filled with crooks that want to swindle everyone involved with the club out of every penny they own and the stands are filled with supporters too busy bickering about who knows the most to realise this wasn't Harrison's fault. It's not Featherstone's fault either, although he could at least try and get into shape.

It is Gary Coxall's fault, and Blackledge, Goldberg, Pam and Watson. It's Hodcroft's fault for starting the decay 10 years ago and it is Russ Green's fault for going along with it. It's also our fault. We could all see it happening, but none of us did anything about it. Those that did have been mocked and criticised by others for doing it. (I include people on other boards in that too.)

It's probably too late now, we'll probably go down, go bust and end up as a phoenix in the NPL. If we don't though, we can't let this happen to our club again. It's like the Who said at half time yesterday, we won't get fooled again.

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Good post ! I could type a 1000 word reply, but I can't be arsed. I also think our non existent midfield has heaped a lot of pressure on the defence, not just this season but in the days since Paul Murray. At the end of the day our players aren't good enough, we havent or paid money for a decent player in years, a leader or a talisman to hold it all together, you pay peanuts you get monkeys, but to add to that HUFC seem to have made signing average players and making them even worse into an art form. Amond, Nsiala and Carroll left a lot to be desired when at HUFC but have all went on to be half decent. I'm sure some of the current lot will do the same. Its our club that is the problem, it seems to suck the life out of everyone employed by it.

As for Featherstone, he was in shape until his injury. You would of thought he would of worked the extra pounds of by now though, how long has he been back? , but as Frankie1966 says, if the manager is giving you 3 days off instead of training its hardly surprising Featherstone still has a gut on him.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37451

If an average player leaves here to go on to become a better player somewhere else it's down to management/ coaches, not funding. For a few years now we've had players in on loan who looked good, but after a few weeks they looked crap. What were they doing with them?

Gerry Mandrake · **Joined:** Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:23 pm **Posts:** 1430

We sold anyone with talent and are left with this lot.

People still blaming the manager...

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