http://news.sky.com/story/1598885/benns ... ed-commons

Great speach whatever your view's are on the air strikes in Syria

Not into Politics but watched it last night (14minutes) and it was a beauty. Made even better by Corbyns face throughout it.

Totally disagree with most of what he said but he did say it extremely well. Struck me that a lot of the debate showed why the whip system is wrong. You had a number of Tories making very good points against Cameron's argument and even more Labour doing the same against Corbyn - most of the best speeches were included in those two groups.

Makes you wonder how much better things would be if all the votes were free votes and they all voted with their conscience all the time. For a start they'd have to take responsibility for their own actions and justify their own decisions to the people who vote for them.

Do they not do a preliminery vote before the day of speeches etc? Would be interesting to see how many, if any at all changed their minds due to the speeches.

I don't think there is a coherent argument for dong it so he was never going to be able to deliver a speech that gave a detailed case. I thought he sounded more genuine and passionate than most others. Both Cameron and Corbyn seemed to lack confidence. In Corbyn's case that reflects what was pretty much a rebellion of the pro-war right in the Labour Party and as they're in opposition it doesn't matter too much. I think everybody, whatever solution they prefer, should be alarmed about a Prime Minister who is taking the country into the middle of a very complicated mess and doesn't seem to be able to explain why or how he thinks it will end. He might as well just say that everybody had French flags on Facebook but because he is Prime Minister he's decided to show that he cares even more by blowing some people up

We've been involved in the fight against Daesh since last year. Just means we can disregard a meaningless line on a map now. Don't know why such a big deal was made of it.

we can only live in hope.

Not sure what Air Strikes are going to really achieve other than killing a whole lot of innocent people and acting as a recruitment agency for ISIS.

The only way any impact will be made on these loops will be with lots of ground troops which will also see a human cost on on our side. Bombing the shit out of the place from 20,000 feet just seems like a PR excercise to show something is being done.

The poisoned dwarf voted against

Utterly pointless vote when ISIS have a strong foothold in Europe already. When cars are riding around Birmingham with an ISIS flag unchallenged. Fifteen years we have fought this War on Terror and we are no safer.

I don't agree with the Tories using a three line whip for this vote; it was a totally moral issue but Cameron's arrogance was clearly the most important thing. I agree that its pointless us bombing Iraq but not Syria as the boarder is effectively void at the minute but that doesn't mean its right to be bombing at all. There's 65 countries in this coalition so does one more make all that difference?

We're living in a era of budget cuts across the board, public services going the journey, council budget cuts and such of the like; yet we can afford to get ourselves involved in a conflict that we don't really need to any more than we are.

I'd say we are safer, the security and intelligence now foils just about everything. Didn't they say that 7 or 8 attacks have been prevented in the last year. Since 7/7 one person has been killed over here in the name of this lunacy, and those two fuckers were batshit crazy even by ISIS's standards. 7/7 was over 10 years ago, I'd say here we are much safer than pre 9/11, most of the people of potential threat are known.

Have 'cars' really been parading around Birmingham 'unchallenged' displaying the ISIS flag or is this the type of made up shit people share from these awful Britain first Facebook pages to whip people into a frenzy? Maybe they are just Villa fans who have swapped the claret and blue for something less embarrassing right now?

How dare he? Why would he possibly think that Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser?



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Great example of why branding people terrorists is far more to do with de-humanising them than anything they actually believe in. There isn't any link at all between favouring an independent Ireland and wanting to establish a caliphate in the middle east is there?

You could say that supporters of both causes used violence against civilians but as that is exactly what parliament just voted to do it doesn't really prove much of a link. All that really shows is that Corbyn looks at each case on merit and then says what he thinks. Even if you don't agree with him that isn't a terrible way to approach things is it?

We're no talking about him debating an independent Ireland. This is about glorification of terrorists. The same people who brought you Omagh, Guildford, Birmingham, and a thousand other attacks. The IRA who murdered thousands of working men, mothers and kids. This 'lovely lovely person' stood in homage after they were shot up whilst in the process of trying to murder.

No, its a great example of why a arsehole like Corbyn should never get a sniff of power. The bloke is backed by a few million loony lefties and none of his parliamentary party. Now we have a load of white flag waving looneys saying that defending ourselves is wrong. I fucking despair.

I suspected we might not agree on this but as you've got the keys to the Trust holiday villa I won't argue.

I'm flying over Syria in the lear jet tonight. Chucking some naysayers out over Raqqa.

Your time would be better spent shagging the models in the on board jacuzzi and sniffing cocaine off Hodcroft's arse.

Mr I and Mr Toulouse, that very brief but succinct difference of opinion and yet laughing off the matter just about sums up how lucky we are to live in this country. Thank you

Thanks Mr Chessington but I live in France, home of the cheese eating surrender monkeys. Or are they heroes now? I forget.

no, still cheese eating surrender monkeys but I've always quite like French birds

Oh do give over. If you really believe that you're away with the fairies. Of course it was aimed at Corbyn and McDonnell.

Because we never killed anyone in Ireland ...

Great to know I'm a loony lefty as well. Just because people have different opinions to you doesn't mean they are loonies. I could quite easily make idiotic generalisations to people who think like minded to you but I like to think I'm better than that.

I think there will be much more need to defend ourselves now we are getting more involved. IS won't be defeated purely by bombing them so until further strategy was decided ahead of mindless bombings, I see little point. YouGov polls showed over half of those involved opposed air strikes and if the Tories had not been forced to vote in favour of the air strikes, which plenty have came out since and said they weren't comfortable with, then I think you'd have seen a lot more 'white flag waving loonies' but its clearly much easier to ignore that and make call those who dare to stand up for what they believe.

Yes we killed people in Ireland. Yes we killed people on Bloody Sunday. And? how does that make it right to support people who are actively killing innocents? I would have more respect for him if he refused to countenance either side. But that is not what he did.

Stand up for what you believe in of course. You have that right. People died to protect that right fighting against those who would do us harm. Conchies never stopped the Boche in WW1 or WW2. It was blokes fighting that preserved the right.

In my view we are already at war. A war that has been declared on us. Hilary Benn got it dead right last night.

While I think, you do know co-operatives (aka the trust) are one of the oldest left wing organisations there is, a key part of the Labour Movement and in terms of direct politics hand in hand with the labour party with joint candidacy. Just for someone who is so anti-left its surprising how your views change when it suites.

I have never said that left wing was bad. not proper left wing that is. The left of Kier Hardie, Attlee and even Wilson. Who can do anything but have absolute respect for Bevan?

I do not however respect the left of Derek Hatton, Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott, (Mao was not all bad), Ken Livingstone et al. They are determined to bring about policies that would harm this country. I'm not fan of Cameron but I'll take him over Corbyn any day of the week.

Ps, the left of Hilary Benn. I'd vote Labour if he were leader.

Hilary Benn was right for saying what he believed, unfortunately more Tories didn't have the balls to do the same to make a real debate over a moral issue that will lead to innocent deaths. But no, Cameron forced there hands and didn't bring about the vote will he knew he could win so does that make his personal pride more important than that of peoples lives? Violence alone does not stop war, there needs to be some sort of discussion and plan in place but there isn't. We are merely just joining bombing without a real plan.

I keep hearing this but what alternatives are there? When people's only aim is to kill you and don't care if they die in the process, there is no negotiation to be had. There are times when a country has to stand up alongside its allies. This is one of those times.

Because Corbyn wants to protect those in society who need it and make things work for the people instead of the rich few means he would harm the country? The NHS which the envy of huge parts of the world is being systematically dismantled; things that are making the state money are being sold off for peanuts and the people suffer. I fail to see how that is right.

It doesn't make it right that we should just do the same as those in the wrong? There might be a time and place to bomb but I don't think this is it, we need to have a long term objective other than drop bombs. If we do rid the world of IS there will need to be a ground force in there for many years to come, something which for so long people campaigned against.

Some huge assumptions there Chip and you're putting words in my mouth.

At what point did I say that this needs air strike alone? And there is little new in what you have wrote. It's all available on a host of websites. Of course the 70'000 is nonsense. They may exist but who they will ally to is unknown. Assad, Russian, Iran, the UAE, remnants of Al Queda, they're all playing a part. How it ends is anyones guess and it won't be determined by a bloke reading stuff on central estate.

For me the air strikes are essential to destroy the planning hub and their command and control structure. We need to destroy their ability to create wealth from illegal oil sales. We need to stop their finances which means very uncomfortable discussions with those eternal harbingers of terror in Saudi Arabia. Wahhabism is Saudi and its at the root of most of the problems.

Then, and this is essential. A large multinational ground force needs to clear out IS ruthlessly. As ruthless are they were in Paris, Nigeria, and a host of other countries.

Then there is Assad, the Sunni/Shia issue, the Kurds, the foreign fighters. All of them must be dealt with but a middle east decision making council. Note I didn't use geographical border because in reality they don't exist. The split is along religious grounds and tribes.

Nevertheless, the air strike will mean that there are less ISIS bastards breathing today than yesterday.

Agree with both of you ( did I really agree with P J ) for me this is the start of many dark days ahead for the UK. Its a crazy situation that could have and should have been stopped long ago.... the vote allows bombing ...but its almost impossible to defeat any group anywhere in the world by bombing alone!! This was simply a vote Cameron needed and pushed for that allows him to "keep face" with the world leaders and very little to do with the rest of us... in 2013 he looked like a very weak leader and now he is rubbing shoulders with the premier leaders.

People (outside of the bunker) are going on like we are going to flatten Syria, Dresden style. The RAF are going to blow up loads of schools and mosques and lots of civvies will die apparently. Does nobody think before they talk these days? Or even admit they don't know much about something and make it up in their own heads?

I think i read we have sent 4 planes maybe? Theres been 100 odd bombing the country for ages anyway. Hardly going to make much difference.