I see England play them tomorrow.

Someone on the news this morning questioned whether we have learned anything at all since we last played them at the world cup 2010.

It seems, as usual, England have learned fuck all, and some of you wonder why we have absolutely no chance of winning the competition.

Of that team that started, that were embarrassed nearly 4 years ago, seven of them are still guaranteed a place on the plane for the finals again.

That game was supposed to signify the big change to English football. Absolutely nothing has changed has it?

How shit can we possibly get before something gives?

Chile.

To be fair Chile aren't complete shite judging by their qualifying record.

England might have learned that they aren't good enough to play an open game against Germany and that sitting deep and playing on the break is the only sensible way to play against a team who are mostly better footballers than you.

Going to watch France instead. Hopefully they'll be losing their tempers as they fail to score 3 against a robust Ukraine defence and don't get to the finals.

The fact that 7 of them are still guaranteed a place as you say has more to do with the FA and the lack of investment in grassroots football, we have 9/10 good English players and don't have a constant bunch of young lads coming through. They tout the under 18's as the next 'big thing' the last time they did that, well, we drew with some plumbers from fucking Montenegro. We'll never improve though, the fucking premier league and all the backhanders they get from it is all they care about.

Still, I maintain we were conned out of the Germany match. And I hope/pray we win tomorrow.

if the fa invested more in grassroots football since 2010 we wouldnt be seeing the benefits of that in 2013 would we?

It's a gradual process, it'll take time, people have to be patient.

Not booo the team at the end of a friendly when about 3/4 players are making debuts or earning 3rd/4th caps.

I meant they should've been investing for the last 15/20 years. But they were too busy building up the premier league, while the arse fell out of the lower divisions.

very true.

and there is EVERY chance of that happening. Then the coach's coq will be on le bloc, as it were.

I fancy giving portugal v sweden a watch but i dont think i could do that whilst england are playing at the same time.

Though i have a feeling this zlatan v ronaldo game may not big the big game its being built up to be.

I agree. Here's hoping Sweden turn Portugal over.

Ukraine v France is an interesting one. If France play to their potential they have the ability to beat Ukraine quite severely. It's a big if though. France haven't played particularly well for a while now.

it seems like france have loads of shite going on in the background, they appear a group of players rather than a team.

That's they key. They aren't a playing well as a team.

It's relevant because already newspaper columns are appearing bemoaning the fact that great players aren't going to be at the world cup finals. Numerous French players were noted and already either Ronaldo or Ibrahimovic will miss out. I think such arguments lose sight of the fact that the game is about teams and not players. It's nothing new anyway. Cantona, Giggs, Weah, Best. All players who have never appeared at the finals because the bottom line was their team wasn't good enough.

And whilst one hopes the plan to expand the world cup to 40 teams doesn't get the green light, if FIFA do keep expanding the tournament indefinitely will appearing at the finals be that special anymore anyway?

I think you have missed the point.

7 of the players, YES 7, that were not good enough four years ago, are still guaranteed a seat on the plane for Brazil.

That suggests little or no progress has been made and nothing was learned.

2 of the remaining four have retired. And the other two, Upson and Barry wouldnt get a game for Pools.

2014 will be a failure and most of those will still be around in 2018. Its the English way.

Boring

I agree. England are boring. Very boring.

But what can WE do?

Good report on how Germany changed their ways with appointment of Klinsman

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24962596

Stop bitching about them would be a good start

Who are the 7 that are going on the plane that did 3 years ago?

At the moment we dont have many alternatives, though its good too see hodgson is trying to find them i just hope they are given the chance.

We dont have a midfielder that can rival the way Gerrard plays at the moment, so shall we just drop him n throw kids in that cant hack it?

I'd imagine the 7 are..

Johnson, Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Milner, Carrick?

Carrick didnt play against Germany. He'll be on about Defoe.

Both Defoe and lampard ain't certainties at all.

Its just the in thing to slate the national team. If we don't win a torny we are deemed failures. Its an embarrassingly method of thought especially coming from a pools fan. 4 years ago we were beaten 4-1. On paper the result looks bad but when at 2-1 we score a goal on the stroke of half time that was a full yard over the line and wasnt given then maybe just maybe it wasnt as bad as made out. I strongly believe the 2nd half would have been different. We wouldn't have been chasing and would have had the momentum. since then there has been 1 tournament. We qualified with ease winning our group. We then win our group at the torny and make the last 8. We lost on penalties, is this such a failure? Then we again top out group and qualify for the World Cup. You had idiots not just on here but allover the shop slating our performance in Kiev. We needed to draw that game, anyone with a brain would see how good and solid of a perfomamce that was on Kiev. Look at France how did they do there on Friday. Fuck the chile game it was a friendly as Is Germany. We will be at te World Cup and well take it from there. Will we win it, no would be my opinion but when have we claimed to be world beaters. People have this delusion that England think they are the worlds best when they clearly don't. On our day we can beat anyone and that's pretty much a fact but we are behind the top sides and have to improve. If people don't like watching our national side and don't care then that's fair enough but if that's the case why bring it up every time we Fukn play. Id place money all the slaters would be celebrating with the rest if we rode out luck and won it. If Greece can win a major then so can we. The torny is 7 month away. Why write us off yet before a ball is even kicked. Nobody knows what will happen over there. All it takes is a bad decision, a penalty or a red card and a game can change in an instant. Like it or not we have some top players who just need to perform which recently at majors they Havnt

its all ifs n buts mr birthmark n whilst i agree at 2-2 your talking a different game i think it was mainly the style of football germany played n the style we played at the time that made us look so bad, they were fast, skilful etc... everything we where not, nothing summed up that game more than barry being skinned by ozil n looking like a dinosaur.

I love your optimism though and i am fully behind that going forward!

I stopped reading at Gareth Barry wouldn't get a game for pools

If you believe that there is no hope for you.

I really admire your optimism and passion Mr Birthmark, but a lot of what Dibble says is true.

Given the size of the population and the levels of interest in football we should be producing better players than what we've got.

Something is missing, but I don't know what. How younguns are taught the game from an early age, how youth systems favour size and strength over skill etc, but we have looked off the pace in every tournament we've played in since Euro 96. Football has moved on a hell of a lot since them but the England team hasn't.

I keep seeing this remark about needing 3 goals. Why do they have to score three?
Anyway, it's irrelevant because when Ukraine get their goal France will definitely need four.

I think the introduction of the the St George's Park football centre is good, but think it's came a bit too late.

From my own limited view it would appear that things seem to go downhill for young English players once they've signed a pro-contract with a premier league club. This echoes what Sol Campbell and Paul Scholes said about young English players. That too many think they are the finished article, they don't need to learn anymore and they are only in it for themselves. Perhaps the issue is more with the coaching and leadership these kids are given rather than an inability to produce good players.

The thing that wound me up about reports after the Chile game was that papers were lavishing the term "reality check" about like everyone is expecting England to win the world cup. The 2-0 defeat didn't tell us anything that we didn't already know.

What needs to happen is a wage cap on the young straight out of academy players. They should still be made to clean boots and do the changing rooms like days of old. I remember an interview with a player on talk sport, cant remember which, that said these young lads are already rich swanning about in big cars etc at age 0f 17-19 and think they have made it. Only a few come and ask for and listen to advise of older players.

Like that you mexican kid who is a twin at Spurs was ment to be the next big thing and HR wouldnt pick him. His folks come over and asked why he wasnt getting a game? HR replied "if he could pass a bar as well as he can pass a ball I would have him in every starting lie up" I think that says it all about young players.

It told me things are worse than we thought.

We got ripped to bits by a Barcelona ressie.

Chile are OK but they are only the 4th best team in South America.

And they lost 6 qualifying games.

Gareth Barry is the worst player to play for England since Carlton Palmer. Thats a fact jack.

Or is Milner worse? Aye possibly. I retract my previous paragraph.

It was interesting to hear the experts view of the two Southampton players. They actually claimed that playing in this England team made them look worse players than they really are. As at Southampton all the team work together, a bit like Chile did.

If we dont get away from the ridiculous and old fashioned system of playing right sided players on the right only and left sided players on the left only we are fucked.

The best teams allow their players to pop up all over the place. We are too rigid, and St Georges park ill make no difference as the top people their are from this old school way of thinking.

Fucking hell ladies, have you not seen the people on their working panel? Relics all over the shop.

If Platini, Gullet, Cruyff, Ribery, Messi etc had been English they probably wouldnt have made the grade. Too lazy, not tall enough, too skillfull etc etc.

Money is going straight to their heads, I beleive once many of them sign a contract on good money they think they have made it.. I mean a story I read about at the weekend was how Andre Wisdom a 19/20 year old youth player at Liverpool, got his £100k porsche stuck in the mud and had to abandon it.. Just mental money for a kid at that age.

So you expected England to beat Chile? Perhaps even comfortably?

I find that interesting considering you rarely waste an opportunity to let everyone know you don't think England are that good

I dont think I said that did I?

I didnt expect us to get beat as badly and as easily as we did.

And it was the style of the defeat that was the real eye opener.

One Sunday paper claimed that the chile goalkeeper had a higher percentage successful pass rate than any of our midfield.

One Sunday newspaper claimed there was a London bus on the moon.

Howay man, throwing/kicking the ball out to your full back is fairly safe as a 'completed pass.'

Ha, if that was the case why does our keeper constantly launch it long then?

Because he's told to?? You don't win a game on completed passes do yer?? That's just frills.

is that the same gareth barry playing so well at everton ? or a different one ?

if you're going to be a repetitive predictable dullard, at least try and do some research.

It doesn't really matter. There are so few English managers in the Premier League that no-one gives a shit about the England team. They just claim some spurious injury and then put them out two days later in a premier game.

That is the root of the problem and yet the FA seem more worried that there isn't enough black or female managers.

we should have gave cloughie the job

don't forget Taylor..

You rate Gareth Barry?

Better to be a dullard, and right, than a thick 'lovely lovely person' thats wrong.

And you manage a football team?

God help them.

Oh, and only in England would a player like him get a cap

It was only a friendly played with a severely weakened side, and it was against a decent team that were one minute from beating Spain recently.

And the only players who played against Germany in 2010 guaranteed to go to brazil are Gerard, Rooney and Cole , who are all quite good.

do please fill us all in on your footballing credentials. at any level of actually playing the game, not just pontificating about it.

I was working on the principle that in a two legged play off where you lose the first leg 2-0 you need to score 3 to win it. You could score two and then either win or lose on penalties but everybody except Sepp Blatter knows that penalties don't count.

Who gives a fuck about France. We're English, fuck France, fuck Ukraine and fuck Germany.

Well I think I may well watch Sweden v Portugal tonight.

The Ingurland game is a bit pointless innit.

England v Germany ressies? In a friendly? Its worse than the JPT.

Who are you going to play against if you just say, "fuck everybody else" for not being English? Doesn't leave you with much of a World Cup if it is restricted to England only.

We're talking about a sport. There is no need to get aggressively nationalistic it just makes you look like a big dafty.

We still wouldnt win it.

But you are English! Fuck those world class fuckers Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo playing to knock each other out of the World Cup. Why would you watch them instead of an aimless kickabout? You must be some sort of Swede loving sardine munching communist fucker- fuck you.

Fuck you you self hating fucking fucker.

That's a bit much. Dibble has already fully explained his dislike of swedes.