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 Post subject: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:48 pm 
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He's said in a rag this morning that he'll resign if the premier league fine him for fielding a weakened team
I think he's spot on to say he can play whatever team he wants
Could be interesting to see who backs down
Before anyone mentions the premiershit may I add that the outcome may affect all the leagues
Discuss

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:56 pm 
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How the hell can any league bosses dictate who should or shouldn't play for a team? In fact I think that any manager should be free to play who the fuck he wants in any competition.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:38 pm 
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didnt Mick Mccarthy get shiit for doing the same thing with wolves v manu a couple of seasons ago?
Hollaway has got a point but by making 10 changes to the team he knew exactly what was going to be coming to him and he sounded like a big daft kid when was questioned about it, toys getting flung all over the place.
would be good to see what happens if the F.A call his bluff.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:56 pm 
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if holloway wants to rest his full 11 and play all his yts players then he is the manager he is allowed.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:05 pm 
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Yubep wrote:
if holloway wants to rest his full 11 and play all his yts players then he is the manager he is allowed.


so you'd be ok about Mick Wadsworth fielding the youth or reserve team tomorrow then?
I wouldn't because like most football fans, I pay good money to watch the 1st team, the others I can watch for nowt.
Holloway has a point but it seems to me he's spoiling for a fight with the f.a.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:08 pm 
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holloway felt his regular players needed a rest and couldnt play the fixture with his 'normal 11'

if wadsworth felt the same that he had he couldnt feel the 'normal 11' due to injuries then as the manager you have to respect his decision.

Man u, arsenal, chelsea etc make massive changes in cup competitions on a regular basis yet no one questions it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:20 pm 
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In a football season, each result has some sort of bearing on every team in that league. For this reason, Holloway is an arsehole for doing this. Mick McCarthy was also an arsehole for doing this. They should be given the same treatment as Wolves or more as it's clear that their punishment didn't act as a deterrent. Dock them 3 points as well.

Those who say he should be able to drop all of his players should think about...
a) The fans who have made the journey and spent a small fortune to watch what is likely to be a certain defeat.
b) the manager clearly has no ambition whatsoever and is not fit to manage a team.

If it was a situation where it affected Pools (in that we missed out on the play-offs or automatic promotion as a result of another team getting an easy 3 points as a result of facing a weakened team) you would all be kicking up a stink about it.

Whether it is a rule or not, sporting behaviour should come into play and fielding a severely weakened team is unsporting. Simple as that.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:23 pm 
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So if the premier League fine Blackpool for not playing their best team(whatever that means, and who decides anyway) then are Manchester United going to be fined every time they leave Wwayne Rooney on the bench, or when Chelsea leave Drogba on the bench? They will have to fine them surely? They are clearly flouting the laws when they leave them out. The premier league cant have it both ways, but they will try to.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:25 pm 
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Woody M wrote:
So if the premier League fine Blackpool for not playing their best team(whatever that means, and who decides anyway) then are Manchester United going to be fined every time they leave Wwayne Rooney on the bench, or when Chelsea leave Drogba on the bench? They will have to fine them surely? They are clearly flouting the laws when they leave them out. The premier league cant have it both ways, but they will try to.


if it was down to me, I would assess if they were clearly taking the piss. making 10 changes is clearly taking the piss out of their fans and the rest of the teams in their league.

Squad rotation is fine. 10 changes is unsporting.

Do you think otherwise like?

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:27 pm 
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jish wrote:
In a football season, each result has some sort of bearing on every team in that league. For this reason, Holloway is an arsehole for doing this. Mick McCarthy was also an arsehole for doing this. They should be given the same treatment as Wolves or more as it's clear that their punishment didn't act as a deterrent. Dock them 3 points as well.

Those who say he should be able to drop all of his players should think about...
a) The fans who have made the journey and spent a small fortune to watch what is likely to be a certain defeat.
b) the manager clearly has no ambition whatsoever and is not fit to manage a team.

If it was a situation where it affected Pools (in that we missed out on the play-offs or automatic promotion as a result of another team getting an easy 3 points as a result of facing a weakened team) you would all be kicking up a stink about it.

Whether it is a rule or not, sporting behaviour should come into play and fielding a severely weakened team is unsporting. Simple as that.


But who decides what Blackpools best team is? And if Pools played Manchester United in the cup, and they left out Rooney Berbetov etc, would we be able to report them or would we be allowed to pick their team? Or is this law just for the also rans?

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:30 pm 
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jish wrote:
Woody M wrote:
So if the premier League fine Blackpool for not playing their best team(whatever that means, and who decides anyway) then are Manchester United going to be fined every time they leave Wwayne Rooney on the bench, or when Chelsea leave Drogba on the bench? They will have to fine them surely? They are clearly flouting the laws when they leave them out. The premier league cant have it both ways, but they will try to.


if it was down to me, I would assess if they were clearly taking the piss. making 10 changes is clearly taking the piss out of their fans and the rest of the teams in their league.

Squad rotation is fine. 10 changes is unsporting.

Do you think otherwise like?


The main problem with your proposal is that it is purely subjective.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:32 pm 
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holloway played a right back who cost over a £1million and a couple of centre midfielders who he signed in the summer too for near enough a million each.

So it was still a strong team.

And they only lost the game in the last minute.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:37 pm 
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It wasn't a proposal. I was saying if it was down to me, that's what I would do. I'm an advocate of fair play.

Knock out cup games are to a certain extent "fine" in that it doesn't affect any other teams other than the two playing. I still think you should compete in every game and give yourself the best chance to do so.

Why not go back to the days when teams used to try to win. The problem with football these days is that teams adopt the stupid policy of trying to draw away and winning at home. Some of the lesser teams (for example, Birmingham last season against Manure) could have won at Old Trafford but opted to play it safe and chuck 11 men behind the ball. I’ve also noticed that this attitude has filtered its way down the leagues as well.

Maybe the points system could do with being looked at
For instance, if a team was awarded 4 points for an away win, would this not promote a more attacking game? Perhaps teams like Blackpool and Wolves would then go for it a bit more. Just thinking out loud.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:39 pm 
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The premier league have asked all clubs to name a squad of 25...

So whats the point in naming a squad of 25 if your not allowed to use it?

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:41 pm 
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whats the point in having a league if there are games where the results are already pre-determined?

It's the fans who are the big losers here.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:44 pm 
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so where does it stop?
lower premiership teams allowed to play their best team for home games and their 2nd team for away games.
top premiership teams saving their best 11 for europe and playing the reserves in the league
the integrity of league football has to be protected as do the fans who spend a fortune on season tickets to see the best team their club can offer.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:47 pm 
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klinger wrote:
so where does it stop?
lower premiership teams allowed to play their best team for home games and their 2nd team for away games.
top premiership teams saving their best 11 for europe and playing the reserves in the league
the integrity of league football has to be protected as do the fans who spend a fortune on season tickets to see the best team their club can offer.


I'm hearing you Klinger.

If I was either a Blackpool or Wolves fan who had made it to those games, I would have felt robbed.

I used to like Holloway too, but now I see he has no ambition and that daft rant he had about the ridiculously greedy Wayne Rooney has since changed my mind.

Fans are now not seen as important. This attitude will destroy the game if it continues

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:52 pm 
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Its all very well Holloway saying that but what if you had a scenario where team A had already won the league and two other teams could possibly be relegated. If team A fielded their reserves against one of the relegation contenders it wouldn't be fair on the other relegation contender would it?

Which is why the rule is there I guess...


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:01 pm 
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O.K this is the Premiership, not the FA. We should also note that this season they have brought in a rule stipulating a 25 man squad, so the comparisons to Wolves fly out the window, it's a different game, if he's allowed such a squad and all players are classed as equal, how can you define who should be playing?. ... and while we're on the subject, Fulham did the same thing and nowt happened to them, no publicity, nowt, now could that be because it had no bearing on the results of the top four ....?

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:11 pm 
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jish wrote:
klinger wrote:
so where does it stop?
lower premiership teams allowed to play their best team for home games and their 2nd team for away games.
top premiership teams saving their best 11 for europe and playing the reserves in the league
the integrity of league football has to be protected as do the fans who spend a fortune on season tickets to see the best team their club can offer.


I'm hearing you Klinger.

If I was either a Blackpool or Wolves fan who had made it to those games, I would have felt robbed.

I used to like Holloway too, but now I see he has no ambition and that daft rant he had about the ridiculously greedy Wayne Rooney has since changed my mind.

Fans are now not seen as important. This attitude will destroy the game if it continues


Holloway said: "Wolves went away to United and their manager openly said, 'I can't beat United so I'm going to play a lesser XI'. I went [to Villa] believing I could win. It's not the same scenario, I find it absolutely absurd.

"I've never been the manager of Wolves, Mick McCarthy's the manager of Wolves, and he said, 'I can't beat Manchester United'. More fool you Mick, because I believe I can. Maybe you don't believe in your team as much as I believe in mine."

That doesn't sound to me like he has no ambition. He is Blackpool's Manager he should be allowed to manage as he sees fit, until the Blackpool board decide otherwise.

Although I see he has now apologised to Mick McCarthy for his comments. sctatchinghead

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:46 pm 
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jish wrote:
whats the point in having a league if there are games where the results are already pre-determined?

It's the fans who are the big losers here.

Blackpool want to stay in the Premiershite, they want to milk the cash cow, understandable. So to achieve this, it's necessary to cut the crap about going out gung ho and trying to win every match. You put all your efforts into trying to win the matches you can win. As Blackpool have four games in 16 days he's decided to use his resources to the best advantage, it's called 'managing'.
.... you get no points for being the plucky loser in that league and as for the fans being the loser, the same fans will giving the 20:20 hindsight advice big time if it goes tits up. The fans have been losing since the Premiershite was formed, only they're too thick to realise it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:10 am 
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MadJohn wrote:
"The integrity of the Premier League"

Sorry, but :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


I actually said "the integrity of league football" :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:11 am 
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Agreeing totally with Snowy. They brought in a 25 man squad, no way can they say which of them 25 have to play and which are the best. They players will only respond positivly to his comments and by all reports they were very unlucky to lose. Thought was a top interview and the bit about showing no ambition is utter bollocks.

I however get the impression he isnt really in love with the job in the Premier League and if he was sacked/resigned then he wouldnt be overly bothered.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:18 am 
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Tree_With_Hamster wrote:
Agreeing totally with Snowy. They brought in a 25 man squad, no way can they say which of them 25 have to play and which are the best. They players will only respond positivly to his comments and by all reports they were very unlucky to lose. Thought was a top interview and the bit about showing no ambition is utter bollocks.

I however get the impression he isnt really in love with the job in the Premier League and if he was sacked/resigned then he wouldnt be overly bothered.


pools have a squad bigger than 25 men and I can tell you what the best starting eleven is,

I bet any blackpool fan can tell you what their best eleven is.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:53 am 
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If that is what is classed as 'managing' these days then i'm astonished. The man clearly couldn't manage to find his arse with both hands.

He changed the team by swapping 10 players. They got beat. That's a manager with no ambition.

I find it absurd that you have bought into the crap that sacrificing one game may mean that you have a better chance of staying up as the next game might be more winnable. If he did have ambition he would surely have put a team out to try and win the match. Blackpool have won at St James Park and Anfield this season so they're more than capable of winning that match. If I were a Blackpool fan and my manager was making such bizarre risky decisions, I'd think twice about supporting that manager.

As for Fulham. Did they make 10 changes? I honestly don't know. I also don't know the opposition of that fixture.

If a team turns around and wins after making so many changes, then fair play but we all know the real reasons why Holloway and McCarthy did it and it's unsporting to other teams no matter how you or those managers try to sugar coat it

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:57 am 
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jish wrote:
If that is what is classed as 'managing' these days then i'm astonished. The man clearly couldn't manage to find his arse with both hands.


That comment isn't strictly true, is it?

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:01 am 
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jish wrote:
whats the point in having a league if there are games where the results are already pre-determined?

It's the fans who are the big losers here.


The game was hardly pre=determined though was it? Villa didn't get the winner till the last minute.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:22 am 
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jish wrote:
If that is what is classed as 'managing' these days then i'm astonished. The man clearly couldn't manage to find his arse with both hands.

He changed the team by swapping 10 players. They got beat. That's a manager with no ambition.

I find it absurd that you have bought into the crap that sacrificing one game may mean that you have a better chance of staying up as the next game might be more winnable. If he did have ambition he would surely have put a team out to try and win the match. Blackpool have won at St James Park and Anfield this season so they're more than capable of winning that match. If I were a Blackpool fan and my manager was making such bizarre risky decisions, I'd think twice about supporting that manager.

As for Fulham. Did they make 10 changes? I honestly don't know. I also don't know the opposition of that fixture.

If a team turns around and wins after making so many changes, then fair play but we all know the real reasons why Holloway and McCarthy did it and it's unsporting to other teams no matter how you or those managers try to sugar coat it


The guy cant manage but took relegation candidates into the Premiership and is now holding his own?

Has he shagged your lass or something cos your talking such shit.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:45 am 
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At the end of the day asking fans to pay premier league prices to watch non events is a rip off. Fans of the so called bigger clubs also have to put up with it. Man U fans (difficult to feel as much sympathy for them) kicked off when Ferguson changed his strong line up, at the last minute no less, to a much weaker one against Everton in the FA cup semi a few season's ago.

Ultimately the Premier League is bothered because if it becomes the norm then people will not watch in anywhere near as big numbers because a lot of the games will be complete non-events.

It's easy to see their point, regardless of whether or not I give a sh#t about the Premier League.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:15 pm 
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Would this discussion have happened if Villa hadn't scored late on? If it had finished in a draw - then he would have been justified in what he did!

Chelsea Man U Liverpool etc field weaker sides on a regular basis - and nothing is mentioned.

JPT - we have rules about teams that are put out - there is no such rule at the top - so he hasn't technically broken any rules!!

The only people to loose out are the fans - as usual - by not seeing specific top players at these games.

Question - if they field a weaker side - do they reduce prices!!??


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:57 pm 
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just watching the villa v man u game now and wondering what would happen if both managers decided they were going to play their reserve teams, just to give the main players a mid season rest like.
I would'nt continue to watch and dont think the 40 odd thousand in the ground would be too happy.

but hey, managers should have the right to play whichever players they want.....


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:02 pm 
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What about Man City then if they made 10 changes it wouldnt matter as the "quality" of the players they could field (probably 3 teams of XI that are all tope draw).

But the question is who decides on the quality of the players and were does the number stop, 4,5,7?? This is a stupid problem if the PL decide against Holloway I agree he should be able to pick whoever he likes.

Also if this happened what about the League cup etc were none of the big teams play their strongest players till the final.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:35 pm 
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klinger wrote:
just watching the villa v man u game now and wondering what would happen if both managers decided they were going to play their reserve teams, just to give the main players a mid season rest like.
I would'nt continue to watch and dont think the 40 odd thousand in the ground would be too happy.

but hey, managers should have the right to play whichever players they want.....
Doesn't matter if you or the fans inside the ground are happy or not. As long as the subscribers keep paying out to fund it you're happiness is irrelevant. It's called the Premiership.... and Holloway is playing to their rules.
However on the point of playing the best eleven, that lays with the manager, the only alternative is to have it picked by a committee or even a fans poll and from that, God deliver us all.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:51 pm 
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Snowy wrote:
klinger wrote:
just watching the villa v man u game now and wondering what would happen if both managers decided they were going to play their reserve teams, just to give the main players a mid season rest like.
I would'nt continue to watch and dont think the 40 odd thousand in the ground would be too happy.

but hey, managers should have the right to play whichever players they want.....
Doesn't matter if you or the fans inside the ground are happy or not. As long as the subscribers keep paying out to fund it you're happiness is irrelevant. It's called the Premiership.... and Holloway is playing to their rules.
However on the point of playing the best eleven, that lays with the manager, the only alternative is to have it picked by a committee or even a fans poll and from that, God deliver us all.


thats the point, the responsibility for playing the best eleven does lie with the manager, but holloway ,whatever he argues, put a reserve team out against villa.
what if they all decided to fook about with teams like that? terrace or armchair fans won't pay full price for reserve football.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:27 pm 
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It doesn't happen all the time or perhaps they would, but most Blackpool fans were supportive and that's all that counts in my eyes.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:29 pm 
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It will start happening more and more if the league do not act in exactly the same fashion as they did with Wolves last season.

If managers pick reserve teams for certain league matches and then the club pays for their fans to get into the ground then fair enough. But as long as fans are forking out to watch the match then Holloway is, frankly, talking nonsense about being able to pick whoever he likes.

The fact that Blackpool competed quite well is beside the point. What Holloway did was wrong and the league will hopefully act accordingly.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:31 pm 
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They're paid to survive and if they think that's the way to maximise their chances, it's their choice, they're the boss.
Once you've paid the bloke to do the best job he can, leave him to get on with it. If you don't like it don't go, simple as that.
He has a strategy and all you have are gung ho tactics. It's a war of survival for clubs like Blackpool and wars are won on strategy, see the big picture.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:59 pm 
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I think what you are saying would be fair enough if it wasn't for the small fact that people have to pay to watch these matches. You say people don't have to go but what about those who have season tickets or have paid in advance through other means? Is it fair that they're being short changed?

If the premier league gave Holloway their blessing I can guarantee you mangers would start picking and chosing their games on masse and that would be a terrible thing. On the contrary to your assertion that I'm not seeing the big picture, I would say I am completely :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:05 pm 
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Snowy wrote:
They're paid to survive and if they think that's the way to maximise their chances, it's their choice, they're the boss.
Once you've paid the bloke to do the best job he can, leave him to get on with it. If you don't like it don't go, simple as that.
He has a strategy and all you have are gung ho tactics. It's a war of survival for clubs like Blackpool and wars are won on strategy, see the big picture.


I dont think you are seeing the bigger picture here,
deliberately playing a weak team devalues any game of football, which is why the cup competitions are in the state they are in.
allowing it to creep into league football would be a disaster.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:35 pm 
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Holloway genuinely belives he did not weaken his team though...

Which is what is up to debate?

If they fine holloway then the league should write to every club saying this is your best team.... play this or your fined.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:40 pm 
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If he gets into trouble over this, the alternative is to have every player in the squad given a number by god knows who, indicating their impotance in the squad and one to eleven picked if available. Nah.
As for the fans being cheated... come on lads, they've being getting shafted since the day the premiershiite began. It's ran for someone's benefit, but it aint the fans, that's for certain.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:12 pm 
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Am really struggling to understand what most of you are banging on about. He did what he did for the best for his club, thats all he cares about and rightly so. Once the FA brought the 25man squad rule in then theres no way they can fine people etc for whatever team they play. It would defy the whole point.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:15 pm 
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If I was Holloway I'd bring a test case in the high court and watch them break the world record for backing down.

It's like when managers criticise referees, there is no way on this planet that those fines would stand up in court.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:38 pm 
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Professional football in England is, in the top two divisions certainly, a rip off as it is. Getting people to pay large sums of money to watch non-events compounds the fellony 100 fold. Pure and simple.

So what if Blackpool managed to hold Villa (who aren't even that good) to 3-2? It's beside the point. If the league effectively said to managers you can pick and chose the games you turn up for managers would do it without second thought for genuinely tough games. And fans would be shafted even more than they are now.

For Holloway to think he only has himself to answer to in this matter is arrogance of the highest order.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:40 pm 
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Ferguson already missed the clubs league cup tie at scunny to go scouting the next european opposition in spain.

So technically they are allowed not to be there.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:09 am 
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Snowy wrote:
If he gets into trouble over this, the alternative is to have every player in the squad given a number by god knows who, indicating their impotance in the squad and one to eleven picked if available. Nah.
As for the fans being cheated... come on lads, they've being getting shafted since the day the premiershiite began. It's ran for someone's benefit, but it aint the fans, that's for certain.


I know your typo included an "a" instead of an "e", but it's still a good 'un! :grin: :laugh:

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 Post subject: Re: Ian Holloway
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:58 am 
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Wasnt that Danny Wellbeck who plays for Sunderland on loan?

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