No political literature stickers similar to the no cold calling ones.

Because over the next month more than half a Brazilian forest will be used to tell us all different variation of lies.

Labour are corrupt and morally bankrupt and the Lib Dems are evil.

Hope that helps.

...and the Tory vvankshaft bankers who have helped themselves while the rest of us have struggled?

In case you haven't noticed we've had a Labour Government for the last 13 years, they've set the rules that the bankers worked to and encouraged the situation that developed.

Hope that helps.

God no.

It'd be bad as most of them are loonies but it'd be even worse if any of the PROPER loonies got any sort of voice through a hung parliament, e.g. Greens, BNP, SNP, the Welsh lot or any of the nutcase Micks.

If the Tories blow this one they will be classed as unelectable.
Their lead should be unassailable. Instead they are relying on the likes of the Sun and the Mail to win it for them along with their usual scaremongering about what will happen if we vote the other lot in. Well I know exactly what will happen if the other lot get in......................the Tories will become isolated and unelectable.

On a point of order.......it was the Tory government that changed the banking rules.

That said the bankers who were at the bottom of the world financial crisis weren't necessarily breaking rules. They were just acting irresponsibly, spurred on by greed. a bit like their political counterparts were doing with their expense claims.

I've said this before but here it is again. When you get rid of a politician, all you are doing is opening the door to another politician.
Remember that folks.

No they didn't and as a matter of fact any chances the Labour party have made the Tories have backed

And the Tories are shite, they won't even get a workable majority


HTH, FWIW & TIA

SO a Government in power for 13 years has been unable to change the banking rules?

Maybe they've been too busy taxing everybastadthing else to bother with something like that if it was so important.

Ripper

The deregulation of the banking system was put in place by the Tories in the mid/late 80's and sadly the Labour party made no efforts to deregulate

My point was at no stage have the Tories attempted to stop any further changes, they have backed them all the way

Whoever you claim put the rules in place, the present Government have been in power for 13 years and allowed the situation to happen without making any attempt to change things. They then compounded the issue when the problems started by throwing money around like confetti without the first clue what they were doing or what the long term effects would be.

By the way, who, during the good economic times when the prudent thing to do would be to pay down the country's debts and not sell off the gold while the wholesale price was at rock bottom, proudly proclaimed (repeatedly) "No more boom and bust"? Are you going to try and put that onto somebody else's shoulders?

Are you seriously suggesting that one government on its own could have prevented the financial crisis that gripped every single economy in the World???
Major banks in every part of the World either collapsed or were the subject of bail outs.

You are obviously an admirer of Gordon Brown's prowess and influence but not even he could have averted that one.

One of the big mistakes that naive Tory politicians and their supporters are making is trying to pin the Worldwide financial mistakes over recent years on this present government.

We aren't that good, old chum.

Go on tell us that George Osbourne, backed by David Cameron, would have convinced Worldwide financiers and business houses that the Davie and Georgie show is rolling into town and that they were all naughty greedy little monsters.

Davie and Georgie's chums were part of it..............but I'm sure you know that. Davie and Georgie couldn't even prevent their own MPs from snouting in the trough, never mind the worldwide snouters.

If you want people to vote for your Tory chums Mr Ripper, you will have to try harder than that, old mate.

I know, I said the Labour Party had made no effort to change the system and any mismanagement lies at their door

HTH

PS

The Tories STLL can't get a workable lead over the Tories despite all the fuck ups, how shite must Cameron be

Ohhh me ribs and such

The banking crisis was a world wide event and no one government was to blame for it on their own.
It is a case of crass naivity for anyone to suggest otherwise.

The governments and financial institutions the world over were collectively responsible and they banded together to correct their mistakes, with some success I might add, although there is still a long way to go.

Believe me, the British Government, of whatever colour, could not have prevented it. We are just not that important i'm afraid.

Try reading my quote contained above. Preventing it is one issue, being prepared for it and / or in a position to deal with it is another altogether.




Like I said above, regardless of who could've prevented it almost if not every other developed economy in the world was better placed to deal with it because of how they'd managed their economy during the boom years, hence why the UK was one of the last to come out of recession.

Are you unable to see that due to deeply held political prejudices or are you just looking to be contrary for the fk of it?

Mr Ripper, you are in no position to accuse anybody of harbouring deeply held political prejudices. That is the most laughable comment you have come out with for ages.
And why is it that as soon as someone doesn't agree with your right wing views you immediately suggest that they are stirring it.

Speaking of which, I think it is you who is stirring it. Unless of course you really are as naive as you sound. Are you seriously trying to say that Cameron/Osbourne are a real alternative to what we've got??????????? Joking aside of course.

For the record my deeply prejudiced mind is not yet made up but you are helping me on that score.

You can get your postie to stop delivering junk mail altogether, I think. There's some sort of opt-out form you can sign, probs available on the net.

Oooooh...dead efficient, Spiff.

Your first paragraph- laugh away, it'll help you try and detract from the issue.

Your second paragraph regarding right wing views, put some meat on the bones. Or are you just dangling for a bite and trying to provoke the usual suspects into changing the subject? The reason I asked if you were being contrary was due to your blatant failure to answer the point raised, which in your rambling of your last post you're trying to avoid again by just chucking out silly statements.

Gordon Brown has done more to fk up the UK economy in the last 13 years than anybody else in the previous 18. FACT!

Your point about a credible alternative? Of course they are. In fact they are a much better bet long term for the future of the UK than the current incumbent shower who will have the country bankrupt and cap in hand to the IMF before 2015 if they are re-elected.

Why should I be dangling for a bite? Put some meat on the bones.
Who are the usual suspects to which you refer? Put some meat on the bones.
What am I being contrary to? Put some meat on the bones.
All of the above have nothing to do with the subject, so remind me again who is changing it.

You said " Gordon Brown has done more to fk up the Uk economy in the last 13 years than anybody else in the previous 18" How is that fact? Is that your dearly held opinion or are you deliberately being contrary? What arguments have you got to back that statement up?

On your belief that Cameron/Osbourne are a creditable alternative. Weren't these two the very people that said they weren't going to throw any money at the financial crisis, even though every government in the world backed the initiative? Why did they then change their minds? Or have they changed their minds? Have you any idea? Who was the first leader in the world to advocate international bail out? What evidence have you got that SHOWS Cameron/Osbourne to be a creditable alternative? So far all we have got is the usual Right wing scaremongering which you support by your predictions for the future to 2015 ( meat on the bones that you have right wing tendencies)

You need to get away from your usual attempts at belittling people just because they disagree with you.

I don't consider the British Government to be the cause of what turned out to be a global financial crisis.
I don't consider Cameron to be prime ministerial material
I don't consider Osbourne to be good Chancellor material.
I don't understand conservative fiscal policies, they don't seem to have any and are continually making policy on the hoof.
We are faring well in our recession beating policies........better than Japan for instance.
On banking...initiatives to regulate banking have to be international in that all the financial powers have to sing from the same hymn sheet. That is Labour's policy............the Tories oppose it.

The above are my views and opinions on the subject of who is best placed to guide the country's economy. You feel free to disagree with them but please refrain from childish comments such as people who disagree are deliberately being contrary.

No one has yet convinced me that Cameron is the man to vote for..............indeed by the hue of the opinion polls he is not convincing very many others.

Going by your philosophy that the last thirteen years have been worthless and that we shall all be bankrupt by 2015, why aren't the so called creditable alternative romping it?????
Are the electorate and the bookmakers being contrary?
Or are they. like me, very sceptical???

Surely anyone who is at all optimistic that any politican is ever going to save us from anything at all, is seriously misguided?

I would tend to go along with that. It matches my point that by getting rid of one politician all you basically do is open the door to another.
Under the system of government we have, until someone convinces me that they would do a better job then I prefer to stick with the devil I know, even after taking into consideration his/her faults, failings etc.
For years we have elected governments on their promises then, after the media taking on the mantle of "effective" opposition we get rid, only to replace them with the very ones we got rid of last time.

So much time spent constructing such a long reply and still a spectacular failure to address the points raised previously.

Are you a budding politician by any chance?

If you're not concerned by the level of national debt due to blatantly wasteful spending by clowns currently running the country then you're either shortsighted or expecting to die soon and not worried about the next twenty years or so.

Of course I'm concerned about the national debt, but if the Tories get in I will be even more concerned, as I am not convinced that they have the armoury to combat it.
Is there any part of that statement which you don't understand????

As for questions, there are plenty being asked of you, but all we get is waffle, and naive waffle to boot.

No wonder you support the Tory party ............like you they have no answers.

So, to cut to the chase, you think that Gordon did right in spending all of our money during the boom years without paying down the debts and putting money aside and that selling the national gold stocks at the arse end of the wholesale market were good moves? You think that the current Government put us in a good position to deal with the recession however that recession occurred? Yes or no?

People always say dont get into an argument about politics, but you cant ignore it. I always look at it simply as a government has 6 pots, but only enough money to fill 5. When they fill the pots containing education, health, economy, public services, and taxation everyone complains about unemployment.

So when they take the money out of the education pot and put it in the unemployment one eveyone complains about the standard of that, etc,etc,etc.

I know I'm rationalising but to put it simply there aint' enough coming in to satisfy everyones ideology. Also you can throw vast amounts of money at the following issues for example, and they'd still all deserve more:- Foreign Aid, Green Issues,Cancer treatment, Alternative fuel, New Business, The Elderly, Immigration, Defence, etc.

Thing is there is'nt a perfect party out there, they'll all make mistakes, it's just trying to determine who'll make the least that's difficult.

It'd get my vote. However I live in a press blinded, totalitarian, Communist state and have no say.

Enjoy the contest.

Typical Tory propaganda.........choose a few questions, load a bit of hindsight, false information and then try and bully somebody into a yes no answer.
Breathtaking arrogance.

Let's see.
Did Gordon put any money away during the boom boom years? Ah is that an admittance that there were boom boom years under Labour. The boom boom years being at least forty out of the fifty quarters. During the boom boom years the chancellor regularly reduced the national debt, so that is a YES.
The gold stocks.
The decision to sell gold was taken and the market value at the time was taken. FACT.
Markets go up as well as down FACT
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but unfortunately that is what it is. Did anybody forecast that it would rise as much as it did. If the price of gold had gone down the move would be seen as good, but it went up so based on that it turned out that it wasn't a good move, so that is a NO. The same applied when former Tory prime minister, LORD STOCKTON, accused Mrs Thatcher of selling the family silver when she sold all the utilities and the railways to fund her unemployment fantasies. You can add the waste of north sea oil to that as well. So hindsight can be used there as well, along with the millions wasted on the eventually scrapped poll tax. No Prime Minister or Chancellor in the history of politics can say that they have not made mistakes. The man who never made a mistake, never did anything. That brings us to Cameron/Osborne who so far have done nothing except scaremonger.

The recession.
This was the result of a world banking crisis as I have stated earlier. Gordon Brown took the initiative and persuaded fellow World leaders to adopt his way of solving it. That meant that billions across the world had to be pumped into the banking system and world economies. We have done what is necessary to get back on track and it is working. So YES he did take the right decision. The Tories however didn't have a plan at all, other than the NERO solution of sitting by and watching us sink.

You are politically out of your depth, my friend, as your Tory party are.

Shortly we shall be given more information on Tory and Liberal policy, allowing us to form a judgement. You of course have already made your choice. Not very clever methinks. But hey I can count on the fingers of one hand the clever Tories I have met. In fairness that applies to a lot of politicians.

Another long winded post containing so many inaccuracies.

Brown sold off the gold to fund his profligate spending that he couldn't afford and backed up his decision at the time by saying that there would be no more recessions. You didn't need hindsight to see how stupid that was at the time. He then compounded it by selling at record low prices, again the sign of a desperate muppet out of his depth thrashing around without any thought for the future.

And if you think that Gordon Brown was primarily responsible for the world response to the banking crisis and subsequent recession then you're not just deluded but have shown your true political colours as only die-hard Labour supporters could even begin to think that to be the case.

The rest of your piss and wind about bullying and arrogance doesn't even warrant a reply as again it just proves that you're floundering.

By the way, having the spare time on your hands to make the long winded circular posts that you do doesn't make you right.

Fair play and all that, but just don't you or yours get ill or expect a decent education under Cameron & his cronies because they don't like the working man going into hospital or learning to read & write, or at least it seems that way from last time they were in, or did you live in this alternative Hartlepool back then?

BTW, They still can't get a workable majority, despite Brown being the useless 'lovely lovely person' you say he is, so what does that make Cameron?

Comparing the current Conservative Party with that of the 1980s is like comparing the current Labour Government with that of James Callaghan or comparing eggs with bananas.

Your point regarding the workable majority will only be answered next month, until then you keep repeating your opinion as though it is already fact.

Hope that helps.

What about the Conservative Party of the 90's?, they were in power for the majority of that decade as well?

Did they suddenly invest massive amounts into the health service & schools?

To save you looking, they didn't

HTH & TIA

They haven't convinced me yet Mutters. You see I remember the Other Tory governments we've suffered under. Mass unemployment, high interest rates, raging inflation, doubling VAT, fuel escalators, Gas and Electric VAT more than double it is now, the farce over the European Monetary System, shortage of nurses, doctors, firefighters etc.,crumbling schools and hospitals, 18 month NHS waiting lists, pensioners state pensions frozen, tax cuts for the well off, Tory MPs being sent to jail, prescription charges soaring, no minimum wage. The list goes on. That's what I can't forget. If they looked remotely like they would change and had some tangible policies I would give them a chance.
They're back with the Eton and other public school toffs in charge, but each to their own. At least we've got the freedom to debate openly and vote without the fear of being shot or harassed.
We all have to make a choice, even if that choice is no choice.

Well I have just read the leaflet from our conservative candidate - it seems as if he isn't holding out much hope of winning as it appears he's let his six year old grand daughter write it - or he is just incapable of constructing a coherent set of sentences.
And as a vote for labour is a vote for ian "right for the town" wright, I think I will be voting lib dem - I will LOVE IT if we have a hung parliament - might make things interesting again rather than middle of road crap

Bingo.

I'd forgotten why I love him.......