Right then, we've all had a whinge and a moan and after Saturday is was very justified. On Tuesday night we were beaten but not by much and by all accounts we were not beaten for effort, thats good enough for me for a game in isolation.

At the moment however, war seems to have broken out between the club and the fans. The clubs view is that a fair number of us enjoy moaning and will jump on anything whereas some of the fans believe that the club is in voluntary isolation and aloof from the fans. Add to that there have been recent press interviews attacking the fans. The point of this thread therefore is to compile a list of sensible suggestions on how this divide might be healed. It's in no ones interests for it to continue thats for sure.

Please lets have no Turner out comments because whatever the rights and wrongs of CT's tenure, no employer let alone IOR is going to conduct employment issues in public and rightly so. Please try and keep it constructive and it might well be listened to.

Over to you lot................

I think another answer and question night should be planned with Turner and the fans. Questions should be asked regarding certain decisions he has made over the past couple of games, ie playing people out of position, not dropping the "old guard" and why isnt rowell been given a chance.

We all can see that the people involved care about the club and wants the best for the team, however we need answers to why THEY think the fans are acting as they are. A question during my propose forum with Turner should be "why do you think the fans are acting like this? could it be the performance on the field and a percived lack of ambition or fight during the games?"

We need to get across to the powers that be that this small club mentality they are putting out with comments about opposition and things about fan base should be stopped NOW!. We are in this division on merit the same as Leeds, Charlton and Southampton therefore we are at the same level as them and excuses shouldnt be made that they are a bigger club. Colchester seem to do ok!

Actions speak louder than words, however if the only words we hear from the club are doom and gloom (ie we have lost the game before it starts against a big club) and putting down the fans for not going or showing their fustration. This will only futher alianate the fans from the club something we dont want.

Concurring loudly with Compo.

What he said

It might be worth using Poolsplayer and the website to allow Turner to explain his decisions by doing a sort of detailed post-match debrief for serious fans. Quick sound bites and standard answers are what the press and TV want and they're fine for the casual reader or viewer but infuriating for people who genuinely care and would listen to, and think about, a proper explanation .

I wouldn't expect him to be over critical of individual players but it would be good to hear the reasoning behind substitutions etc explained in depth. What does he feel certain players contribute even when they clearly aren't on top form, it can't just be favouritism can it? Why did we lose a particular battle for midfield? Or why wasn't there even a battle? Even when you disagree hearing somebody who knows the game well explaining their rationale in detail can really make you think carefully. The fact they bothered to do it also helps to undermine the impression of arrogance.

This could be done after every match. He must be analysing performances anyway so a quick half hour in front of a camera is all it would take. The space on the website is already there and he couldn't be misquoted etc as the club control it. Not to use the chance to communicate so much more clearly and directly seems crazy to me but, at present, you just get more of the bland stuff served up for the media.

This might not sound much but it is easy to do and doesn't involve trying to force the club to sack anybody or to abandon any integrity they have in dealing with employees. As suggested earlier more face to face Q&A sessions for those who can get to them are always good too.

I like a lot of what you say Mr Toulouse, however making stuff like that only available on a pay per view basis would only serve to further alienate people.

I think the bridges have to be built with the club and especially the owners of the club.
We've all had a go at Turner recently. We had a go at Wilson and Scott. They are easy targets because we don't feel any trepidation when we have a go.
I would like a bit more transparency from the owners.
If they, like us, are wanting the very best for the club, then there needs to be more dialogue and understanding between us and them.
The owners have been around for more than ten years now but most of us walk on eggshells around them. We just don't know what motivates them to throw their financial clout at Pools.
Why do they do it?
What are they trying to achieve?
If they were lifelong Poolies, like us, I would feel a lot safer and more confident.
What makes them stay and, more importantly, what would drive them away?

I would love to hear Ken Hodcroft open up to the fans. I would love to think that he was at one with us, that he shared the same passion, joy and disappointment that goes with supporting Pools.

It is very difficult to put my thoughts on this matter in writing but I have this foreboding resting with me all of the time and I am absolutely certain that the stayaways think the same.

Openness, frankness, transparency, absolute honesty...................call it what you want, but it needs addressing in my humble opinion.

It's a bit rich that the club are criticising the fans. After all if there were no fans there would be no club, and as we are paying to watch our team we are entitled to criticise if performances are poor as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

Fair play to Turner for recently answering some very direct questions on the website. It would be better if the club were a bit more open on certain issues but not being a genuine poolie himself, I suspect Hodcroft does not feel the same passion that we do on the terraces.

The fans will get off Turners back if results improve but at the moment it is difficult to see where our next 3 points are coming from.

My feeling is as Warwicks, it's difficult to see that Mr Hodcroft can have the same passion for the club as we have. Imagine if the Company you worked for took over Scarborough F.C, and asked you to step into the position of M.D, could you, even though your heart lied with another club, show the same unflinching enthusiasm for the 2nd club.

Also I tend to think that K.H and C.T assume that our observations, and in a lot of cases advice, count for nothing. We to them are not qualified to be making some of the obvious positional/selection criticisms, which we only relate through sheer frustration, on this site.

Thats of course if they really take any notice of what is said on Pools fan's forums.If they dont what are their criticisms based on terrace talk, or letters to the Mail?

It sounds to me that an 'Ask Ken' type piece on the web-site would be a good idea if he is prepared to be open and honest with some questions to start like

1. We're all very appreciative of the investment that IOR have put in the club over the 10 or so years but we still aren't sure what IOR are in it for. What do they hope to achieve for their investment? What are their ambitions?

2. Expectations are higher than they have been and so the club need to be seen to be progressing if gates are to hold up/improve in these difficult financial times. Are you frustrated at the lack of progress since promotion?

3. The spirit of the club seems to have been lost, epitomised by the MK display. How do the club ensure that manager, players and supporters give their all for the team?

4. A lot has been said of late about us talking up the opposition and at best being plucky in defeat. Does the club have the ambition to take on and beat the bigger clubs that have fallen from their former glory?

5. What do IOR require from a manager and on what measures do they judge performance?

6. What is the vision for the club in say 10 years time?

7. When agreement is reached on the purchase of the ground what developments can we expect to see?

Hopefully to the point without being too controversial or disrepectful

I do remember a time chris turner, via the late paul mullen, used to post messages on itn, i'm not saying thats possible now, but couldnt summit similar to that be set up?

Despite all the flak being hurled in the direction of Turner and Hoscroft, I still think the obvious candidates for criticism slip quietly along in the background ... namely the section of players who apparently can't be arsed, the players who go out onto the pitch with the heart of a pea and as much fight as mascara night at a cross dressers club. . Like Cooper said, players get you sacked and some of this lot, while talented, when the fancy takes them, appear to have lost interest and don't appear to respond to 'grown up' instructions. .. maybe the time for appealing to their better side has gone and it's time to make demands of them.
You can get beaten, but it helps if you go down fighting.

hit nail on head there

I think it would probably be fair to say that the board/management almost certainly don't give a toss about the hysteria of the 15 or so posters who are working themselves up into a hissy fit about Turner. They know that they are not representative of the fan base.

There is about a tenth as much fuss made of great performances like the comprehensive beating of Millwall as is made about defeats. Many people on here were predicting no points between mid- November and the end of February due to the run of 'difficult fixtures' * Well Pools have already bettered that and post mid-February have the easiest run-in I've ever seen the fixtures computer give us.

We are Hartlepool United. We get conference crowds - they whinge a lot and rarely get behind the team even to the point of having to be organised to sing. Despite these facts, due to a supportive board and good management, we are 12th in the third tier. If this is maintained then we will have the third highest finish in 101 years. In a season where a great chunk of the squad has been replaced and we have lost two of our best ever players, I think that this represents achievement - I think IOR probably do too.

I've often thought that Pools supporters are at times some of the best supporters in football (I remember with a glow of pride turnouts of 1200 at York, big turnouts at Bournemouth , Exeter and Swindon). But, by god, Pools fans are negative.

I went with my wife to see a Sunderland fixture about four years ago - Nyron Nosworthy crossed the halfway line with the ball under no pressure, looked up for an option, then calmly cocked up the pass altogether giving the other side a throw on the halfway line. To my amazement instead of the torrent of abuse than would have ensued at Pools the ground errupted into an encouraging chant of 'come on Sunderland'. Now before anyone helpful points it out - yes I know that the blind loyalty in Sunderland fans is due to stupidity and in-breeding. But I wish we had even a small portion of the same at Pools (positivity rather than in-breeding)

It would though be nice to think that, as rational people who predicted a very tough run in December/January and early February, there wouldn't be quite the level of hysterical panic that there is on here.

We are halfway through the tough fixtures, still twelth, an easy run in. What kind of crisis is that? Why should the board and manager be held to account instead of warmly thanked?

Cue the torrent of 'rose-tinted', ' you are Turner', 'no ambition', 'piss off and support sunderland then' style abuse. Sorry for seeing the glass half full.



*Note: apparently only fans are allowed to observe that playing Leeds with quality players in every position due to strong finances is tougher than playing Stockport who have poor players due to having little money. When a manager makes an accurate assessment of the two teams this is stupidity.

daddy?




good post btw

I have just read the best comment (after mine) in eons on this board.

Too infrequenter a poster sir, but I can see why.

To be fair that quite simply isn't true.

I know a lot of people who are more critical of Turner than any of the posters on here, if you think the only people who have this so called 'hysteria' are 15 posters on here you are seriously deluded. Why are we missing 1,500- 2,000 fans if that is the case? I'm sure the board/management take that VERY seriously. Try talking to people in the Mill House before/after games, try talking to people around town. I take on board many of your points but you have started it on totally the wrong foot.

This board is a very fair cross section of Pools fans in my opinion, most the people on here are people who have been going for years and who have supported Pools through thin and thinner!

Basically a good call, Mr D.
But you must concede that constantly bigging up the opposition and implying we have no right to be on the same grass as them is getting tiresome.
We are in that bloody league on merit, and hopefully can cement our place therein.

Well said Mr PJ.

Mr PDE seems to have let it pass him by that we got dicked 5-0 at home last weekend. Losing games we can take. Players not trying and the team, OUR team, being humiliated, is a different matter altogether and hints that all isn't well on and off the field.

I'm not baying for Turner's head like lots on here, I'd love nothing more than for him to turn it around starting by winning our next three games, but I am concerned about the level of performance that we're being offered by some very well paid players and management because I care about HUFC and don't want it all to go to ratshit like it appears to be at the moment.

Well I'm glad that there is only fifteen of us who have got it all wrong. I mean all this hoo ha about attracting back the two thousand or so that have suddenly disappeared is obviously unnecessary panicking by the club.
The stats that tell me that we have gleaned a massive seven points out of the last thirty available are lies and we haven't lost seven out of the last ten, nor have we lost the last five away from home.
Everything in the garden is rosy. Turner's record at this level is just pure fantasy and he is actually going to win the next two hundred games to put it right.
Another lie is the comparison with Scotty. Turner's record is no longer remarkably similar to Scotty's and we should ignore any facts that suggest that it is.
What would really shatter my illusions is if someone came on here and told me that there wasn't a santa. Now that really would be the last straw.

Im gonna edit that as dont think its what youir after but in my opinion the club shouldnt have put itself in a position to need to "build bridges"

to be completely honest, i don't think many/any bridges will be rebuilt until Turner leaves. Unless, of course, we start winning regularly.

Even if he were to go back 'upstairs' you just know a certain section would blame him for interfering every time the new manager made a strange substitution or lost a few matches in a row.

i fear this situation is going to get worse before it gets better.

yeah, nice one...at the end of the day none of this really matters, does it?!

Your cup is obviously half full, but seeing things in a positive light can be just as destructive as seeing them in a negative light. You have to concede that there's something amiss, the crowds are an indicator of that. To adopt the old 'be thankful with what you've got, we used to be utter shit once and things aren't too bad' ... line, is to tell people to shut up, support the team and don't have an opinion, which aint gonna happen.
Whilst I hate personal abuse, I don't see how discussing poor and inconsistent performances by both management and especially players, is wrong.

Snowy

You have vaild points - and of course people should be open to criticise but at times this crosses the line, goes beyond moaning and criticism and when it gets this bad, you stop listening, particularly when it becomes over-personal. Is it wrong to be optimistic too?

I think the manager had an idea of what his ideal XI would be but due to injuries and incosistencies it hasn't been possible to field that and we're probably hampered by having too large a squad to chose from? Not sure, but something is amiss.

Tough times ahead, but I always see light at the end of the tunnel.

I reckon a large part of the problem is that the novelty of coming up, challenging the play-offs and doing a little bit more than just surviving has gone. Of course you can't recreate novelty and there is now another press-garnered stock in phrase namely 'mid-table-mediocrity' that everyone can trot out. I don't see that surviving in the third tier is mediocre but of course we've done better in recent history and the current cult of stimulus response demands more.

I really feel that an improvement in the clubs position and a challenge for the top six wouldn't guarantee the return of the lost hoards as they've seen it before. So what do you do?? Demand change, which is what is happening now. There was change, the whole squad changed just five months ago, they did get full backs, they did get strikers and recently they've got the much vaunted midfield clogger who promptly picked up his first booking in his second game. They did do a thing on tickets, maybe not what everyone wanted, but they did do something.

There's a million ideas. I just went for a short walk and the china shop (pottery, you ignorapotamus's) has got a huge AC Milan display on. I'm not sure it'll make them more popular and the pottery is as ugly as Dibble, but the name's out there. I'm also fairly sure that Italian footy doesn't get covered here, it's the Bundeslige on national telly. Anyway I digress.

Thing is, it's in the interpretation. When Chrissy-boy says we're outclassed by the big teams he's doing no more than state the obvious. I know it, you know it and we all know why. Bums on seats. Good players want to play in front of bigger crowds so we're going to get pushed out on signings. I never saw that as defeatism and I still don't 'cos I know he's speaking the reality. However, the dissenters want to jump straight down his throat and say we're beaten before kick off. Of course we aren't.

Someone said that there was about 10% of the crowd singing for his head on Saturday. Course there was. If I'd been there I'd have been amongst them. Football stadiums are all about tribal behaviour and the troops hammer the leaders when it all goes tits up.

The plain fact of the matter is, no-one has any patience any more. They aren't prepared for the long haul that is building a team. My mate's Bristol Rovers have been at it for about four years. (Incidentally if anyone at Bristol sees a tall skinny bloke with glasses and brown hair called Andy, knee him in the goolies and tell him not to forget my cheese). Their crowds are about the same as ours over the piece and they can't swoop for several great players at once either.

So maybe if the club, Ken Hodcroft, Chris Turner, whoever, made some sort of statement of intent about the next few years it'd stop all the moaning and maybe people would spend more time encouraging their mates to go to the games rather than acting the drama queen and saying 'I'm not going again until they do what I want.' Which is what it comes down to.

Here is my view on it.

This season the atmosphere and drop in crowds was plain to see and it was alarming so myself and elvis meet the club to get a singing section going and voiced our opinions to Russ Green about how the fans were feeling hence the sing section.
If it was a sucess or not that is up to the fans to say but we were UNITED as one that game against Walsall and we won.
The following few weeks was an anti climax were i was expecting the club to come out and say FA Cup day Kettering the singing section is back we the club have got a 100 hufc flags made for the kids to wave and lets have a fantastic day but there was nothing.
Then the rink end why could the club not come out and say we will do everything in our power to give you back the rink end if thats what the fans want but yet again nothing.
My last game before the mkdons game was Kettering we need ideas given to the club but the club needs to act.

The general consensus of opinion is that bridges need to be built or rebuilt.

The onus is on the club to initiate this, as it is very difficult for us as individuals to kick start it.

We are not asking for trade secrets, confidential or delicate information, just more transparency when it comes to the plans and ambitions of the owners and what we can do to help.

Obviously the first thing we the fans can do, is turn out in force and get behind the team. That is easier said than done.
It needs to be kick started and can only be kick started by the club.

Ken Hodcroft and Russ Green need to communicate more with the fans, not in a chit chat kind of way but general, meaningful dialogue, through the various forms of media available to them.

Hodcroft, for example, talks about all sorts in the match day programme. Why not tell us, as far as is possible, what the short and long term plans are at the club. How the ground sale is going. What are the development plans for the ground. What steps are we proposing to take to continue strengthening the squad. There are numerous topics he could focus on, all of which will encourage the fans to think that we are part of the family once again.

In the past we have had veiled threats that the owners were considering their position over this or that. All that does is frighten people. The club need to get everybody on board. The work they do in the community is fantastic. The same effort needs to be made to convince Joe Average that it is the town's club, that he is wanted and needed and that we are all thinking as one.

The reason for all this bickering is people are apprehensive as to what is in store for us. That is a result of our love and passion for the club.

Are you not contradicting yourself?

It will take a LONG time for bridges to be built with Turner in charge.

90% of the fans have lost confidence in him and have turned against him. Its not just a handful of people on this board who feel this way - the vast majority at the games are saying exactly the same things, young and old. His recent bickering and criticism of the fans has well and truly c4'd, burnt, demolished the bridges that were there.
For him to turn it round he would have to get his PR back on track and more importantly start demonstrating that he is the right man to take the club forward. This is no short term process and a few random wins here and there will not suffice and keep the fans off his back.

The ball is well and truly in HIS court. He has assembled the squad and cant have many more of his excuses up his sleeves. ALL the hard work which has gone into the club over the past ten years seems to be getting undone and the most effective way to stop the rot and get the fans back into the ground would be to appoint a proper manager who the fans have faith in. At least if IOR did this then it would demonstrate that they at least WANT to turn things around and were listening to what the fans are saying.

It's looking like .... 'A Bridge Too Far'

if infact IOR do read this board the only time pools have realy been successful is when turner was with sheffied & stockport getting them both relegated i was one of the 16000 poolies to followed a true manager to sunderland and lets not forget that same manager cooper got us to 2 play offs. beating bigger clubs on the way
if IOR want to get the supporters back. i think its far to late" Also why i have my kipper box out any manager worth is salt would never have paid £80.000 for Boyed, and also for the team to ask the manager if they can play the same formation as the team thats just stuck 5 in to them. that statement just said it all last straw for me my season ticket went in the bin weeks ago

of course it went straight in the bin...

BOYED?

More like 'Loyed!'
S hit spelling aside, mate, we did NOT take 16000 fans to Sunderland.

I think he is getting mixed up with Cardiff. We (only) took 10,000 to the SOL.