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 Post subject: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:02 am 
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Before any wise guys comment on me getting home quick - well, I do actually live less than ten miles away now....

We got what we expected and deserved in many ways. Oldham passed the ball around well and looked a class above, it was only a surprise that they didn't score more than they did as they didn't actually create that many shooting opportunities.... they didn't need to though and were well worth the victory.

Pools though certainly didn't help themselves. Too often we were standing off and failing to get challenges in - the boys in blue were allowed to pass it around quite happily until they got close to the edge of the box.... Nelson and Collins did OK, Humphreys wasn't bad, McCunnie stood off too much but really it was the lack of a foot in from the midfield that caused a lot of the trouble. When you've got Clark and Liddle in the middle, you expect more bite than we saw tonight.

Matters weren't helped by a front two that were about as lightweight as helium balloons. Whenever we tried to clear our lines it invariably came straight back at us as Foley and Mackay failed to win the ball or if they did, hold onto it.

Let me say here that I am not necessarily criticising Foley here. He tried hard enough, but he was never going to win aerial balls against someone a foot taller, and had to resort to the odd little push to even try and win the ball - this does not mean he's at fault, it means he's being asked to play a role that he just doesn't have the physical assets for.

Mackay on the other hand was significantly more culpable IMO. He at least has a bit more height, but any ideas that he might lead the line were misplaced. He ran about a bit, but his impact on the game was negligable. Foley at least tried to find space, and when he did have the ball at his feet tried to do something with it...

The first goal was farcical; a ball in from our left found Hughes with so much time in the box that he could have gone for a cup of tea and still had time to fire home before anyone got close to him. A defensive error, but whether you blame the central defenders or ALB I don't know (possibly the defenders....) It says something that at one point Collins was getting ready to head the ball out as a cross came in, despite the fact that ALB was already jumping to collect it.

Watching Foley against the Oldham defence was a farce. Inevitably the ball was too high over his head for him to even get close, and by the middle of the first half I was almost laughing whenever it happened - it was a bit like a small yappy dog hoping to fell an elephant. Again, not necessarily his fault - he can hardly wear platform boots - but Pools seemed to lack the sort of passing and vision to give him the sort of ball that he could do something about.

The only surprise with the second Oldham goal was how long it took to arrive (decent strike too), and at this point it really did look like how many would it be. Then Turner did what the travelling fans had been calling for since half time if not earlier - he brought Monkhouse on up front (for Foley, although Mackay had been if anything more anonymous). It seemed that within seconds we'd pulled one back - Monky collecting the ball in midfield, shielding it for a second and then sending Robson away down the left, a decent cross, own goal but hey, we're back in it - and all of sudden we were a different side.

Don't get me wrong, we didn't look a good side, but we actually started putting tackles in in the midfield, acting like we cared, and like we might just snatch something with a bit of luck. Oldham were still the side looking more dangerous and more skillful, but there was just a touch of "you never know....". Monky put himself about a bit, didn't look the definitive answer up front but at least asked a few more questions of the Oldham defence which up to then might as well have taken the night off. By Full Time, I at least felt that we'd made Oldham work a bit for a win that they seemed to be strolling to for two thirds of the game.

With the strikeforce currently at our disposal, we will probably struggle for the rest of the season and for that reason it is essential that we sign a striker, preferably with some experience. If Joel is going to be carrying injuries or - heaven forbid - unavailable for any length of time then calling our attack powderpuff is an insult to powderpuffs everywhere. It reached the point that until Monkhouse came on, there was actually no point in someone putting a cross in the box. You got the feeling that the midfielders in particular knew this, and were on a damage limitation exercise for much of the evening. Barrett made one or two decent stops, but the defence clearly don't trust him and that leads only one way too.

Please Sir, can we have a new striker? Or even one of our old ones? How old's Paul Baker now? Yes, up front we are that close to the bottom of the barrel....

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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:28 am 
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The first half was shocking! I wanted Monkhouse to start and when he came on he seemed to lift the team and Matty Played a lot better. Ritchie Jones was once again rubbish. Nelson and Collins did well IMO but we are too lightwieght upfront and why we where hitting long balls to them too is beyond me! Anohter thing we need 2 get good at set pieces and get it over the first man as our set pieces were shocking!


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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:34 am 
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So the first goal came from cross from our left? Shock.

They didnt have many goal scoring chances? Are we to presume ALB never saved a shot again?

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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:50 am 
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From the highlights he made one decent save from Hughes early on and a very good point blank save from a header. He again though nearly got lobbed in the middle of his goal from a freekick banghead . Sounds like Oldham pretty much controlled the game despite us not giving them many clear chances. Two decent strikers last night and we might have took a point if not three if you limit a team to very few decent chances away from home.


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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:23 am 
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Tree_With_Hamster wrote:
So the first goal came from cross from our left? Shock.

They didnt have many goal scoring chances? Are we to presume ALB never saved a shot again?


He did make one or two decent stops (including one from Hughes early on), but it is clear that on crosses in particular Collins and Nelson don't trust him, which straight away puts them under extra pressure. (We were at the far end from the first goal btw, so it wasn't easy to see who was at fault for the goal - if Nelse missed it then he picks up the brickbat for that.)

To be honest I think they very quickly realised we were no real threat going forward, and took their time to try and carve out chances because they knew they could. Certainly the second goal had an inevitability about it even if it was a good strike.

The way we were playing last night we'd have been better sticking Nelson up front, dropping Clark into defence and probably starting with Rowell (who put in one good throughball in his brief cameo). At least that way we'd have had some physical presence up front. Turner did that with Spike Lee occasionally a few years back. When the strikeforce was announced it was obvious that we would struggle and sure enough we did.

Ironically it's not necessarily about just physical size - Mackay is listed as being six foot and taller than Porter. Neither of them seemed to have the strength to hold and shield the ball, which is what the likes of Porter (and Boyd!) have, meaning that they were too easy to muscle off the ball. Foley did manage to use some fancy footwork once or twice and looked like he was at least prepared to get stuck in, but without someone to play off he was not going to get anywhere; the midfield very rarely got the ball out to feet, or into gaps for them to run onto, and the result was that until Monky came on to give us a bit more presence up front we were simply not in the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:36 pm 
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Its all been said before , but a good point was made in relation to size, its not just about height but also about strength , doesnt , didnt hamper Owen or Chopra or Rodgers or Naylor now or in the past. We have been in slow decline for 3 years now and there are players on the books who should of went years ago when we were getting 5000 crowds Sweeney , Foley, Clark etc.Its probably too late to have a cull now because we cant afford to replace them.Thats why I worry about next season if not this.


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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:38 pm 
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ronaldo wrote:
We have been in slow decline for 3 years now and there are players on the books who should of went years ago when we were getting 5000 crowds Sweeney , Foley, Clark etc.Its probably too late to have a cull now because we cant afford to replace them.Thats why I worry about next season if not this.


Sweeney.....Clark..... stpid stpid stpid stpid


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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:26 pm 
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ashleypoolie wrote:
Ritchie Jones was once again rubbish.


ah someone whos been seeing what I've mentioned time and time again he flatters to decieve - has he had one decent game yet

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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:23 pm 
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Dont rate him either. Had a couple of good games though I must admit. The problem is though that he came from Man U so people simply say "he has potential" despite how poor he plays, where as if he came from non league, people would no doubt call for him to be dropped.

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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:45 pm 
MadJohn wrote:
Agree with chip. Jones has had many decent games and some excellent ones. But he has also had others, like last night, where he is anonymous. Tree, I know it would suit your point of view to believe that Pools fans really are that dumb, but I don't think anybody who rates Jones does so on the basis of who he used to work for.



Otherwise we would of all cried like babies when David Glegg was released


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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:59 pm 
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MadJohn wrote:
Agree with chip. Jones has had many decent games and some excellent ones. But he has also had others, like last night, where he is anonymous. Tree, I know it would suit your point of view to believe that Pools fans really are that dumb, but I don't think anybody who rates Jones does so on the basis of who he used to work for.



I dont believe all are that dumb no. But how often in player ratings on here do people say "didnt do too well but has bags of potential"? Now tell me, would that be written if he came from Tow Law?

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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:09 pm 
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TalbotAvenger wrote:
MadJohn wrote:
Agree with chip. Jones has had many decent games and some excellent ones. But he has also had others, like last night, where he is anonymous. Tree, I know it would suit your point of view to believe that Pools fans really are that dumb, but I don't think anybody who rates Jones does so on the basis of who he used to work for.



Otherwise we would of all cried like babies when David Glegg was released


Clegg?

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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:12 pm 
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Mr Ripper wrote:
TalbotAvenger wrote:
MadJohn wrote:
Agree with chip. Jones has had many decent games and some excellent ones. But he has also had others, like last night, where he is anonymous. Tree, I know it would suit your point of view to believe that Pools fans really are that dumb, but I don't think anybody who rates Jones does so on the basis of who he used to work for.



Otherwise we would of all cried like babies when David Glegg was released


Clegg?


I think that's what he said, Ripper!

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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:57 pm 
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And TPP will ensure he does everything in his power and I mean EVERYTING to ensure that Jones DOES NOT leave Pools' under any circumstances.

This will probably go as far as telling IOR to give him a new contract every season and that he (TPP )will pay his wages.

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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:41 pm 
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MadJohn wrote:
Tree_With_Hamster wrote:
I dont believe all are that dumb no. But how often in player ratings on here do people say "didnt do too well but has bags of potential"? Now tell me, would that be written if he came from Tow Law?

I recall people saying things like "he wouldn't have stayed at ManYoo so long if he didn't have something about him", but that was when he first signed and people were trying to make judgements on a player they had barely seen. After he had played a few weeks he began to be judged on his own performances, and has been judged in that way ever since as far as I can remember.



You should be a politician. Avoided answering the question very well.

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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:07 pm 
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MadJohn wrote:

a) How often in player ratings on here do people say "didnt do too well but has bags of potential"? Don't recall ever seeing it
b) Now tell me, would that be written if he came from Tow Law? No, but see a)


Right so you agree people base opinions and judgement on him because of his old club but also say he is only judged on his own performances
sctatchinghead sctatchinghead

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 Post subject: Re: Oldham Reactions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:58 pm 
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I don't think anyone necessarily expects someone to do well based on who they have played for, especially given that we aren't exactly raving about the silky skills of David Clegg, Paul Wratten, and Danny Byrne, never mind Godwin Antwi. It occasionally serves as a marker that they may have been at least taught the right way to go about things, but if they were that good they wouldn't have been released.

At the same time with Jones we were told that he was in demand by SPL clubs etc which probably added more expectations. As it's turned out, he's just one more central midfielder in a basketful and has yet to look like he's actually worth a regular starting place. More may come if he finds his feet, the problem is at the moment that is time that we don't have...

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