I'll let Madjohn answer that.

Who has tried to 'water down racism?' that inference is both untrue and insulting. Also who would be 'for' any form of racism? That again is an absurd insinuation. What evidence do you have of endemic racism within the Labour party that would make anyone vote for them a hypocrite? It's a ridiculous slur. The World isn't so straightforward and what is going on in British politics right now certainly isn't. It's an absolutely toxic cesspit.

The accusations of antisemitism claims of course have to be taken seriously anyone with such views dealt with. But again much of this and the scale of it is debatable as is the question in itself that is being critical (you can find plenty to be critical of) or opposing the state of Israel antisemitic or indeed racist? I'm not so sure it is, but would be willing to listen to those who think it is. It certainly isn't discrimination in it's purest form like mentioning 'letter boxes' 'watermelon smiles' or 'tank topped bum boys' it's significantly more complex than that. Labour have acknowledged the issue and have vowed to deal with it though and Corbyn has on several occasions reiterated that he opposes any form of antisemitism. So to suggest that anyone voting labour is in any form condoning racism would be laughable but you continue to do it without any foundation. Which is a disgrace.

You can see exactly how this is being used though when you see the pathological liar and narcissist Johnson in a Bakery in Golders Green the other day piping 'get Brexit done' onto donuts like some sort of saviour of the Jewish community in the UK. Comical almost. It's outright propaganda. Swathes of our written and digital media are complicit as well.

As the end of day I'm not a Corbyn fan, I do not think he should be leader of the Labour party, I do not think he'd make a good Prime Minister but the Tories and Boris Johnson must be stopped. Forget about and get over yourself do what is best for the country. This is the most important thing here. Labour at least represent the values of decent normal hard working people and they have a very clear and transparent way forward regarding the whole Brexit farce. This government have caused absolute chaos our country has become a fractious mess, why would anyone want them to have the opportunity to continue especially with a leader not fit for any form of public office? Corbyn isn’t going to secure an outright majority so it’s not even about being worried about him becoming Prime Minister it’s about stopping our country’s heading down a very worrying and dangerous path. The key seats have got to go the way of Labour or the Lib Dems one of those being Hartlepool that is more important than what anyone thinks of the Daily Mail or Sun charecateur of Corbyn.

Seriously just how are they getting away with shite like this, just read that headline. It’s scandalous;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ation.html

Johnson’s entire campaign and his career to this point is built on subterfuge.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 35281.html

Disabled people already have lives tainted with discrimination and challenge as part and parcel of it all, now they deserve to be paid peanuts. What a charming individual.

Indeed, I saw that later as I began looking into the story.

But of course, only Labour has racists apparently.

I don't know who said only the labour party has racists. My stance is both the main parties are involved in racism which means that any anti racist, zero tolerant on racism individual cannot, in true conscience, vote for either of them. They claim they are sorting it out. When they do I'll look at it again.
In the meantime those who want to vote for either of them do so in the sure knowledge that they are voting for parties involved in racism.
You can't dress it up in any other way.
And people call me racist and closet tory and neo liberal and sycophantic and tory wet dream.
I'm the only one who actually is zero tolerant but keep it to yourselves.
You can't gag the truth, well not until labour get in anyway.

Nobody has called you anything why are you so desperate to make it all about you?

He's a drama queen. Pure and simple.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/expo ... -mwhhfkknv



Sickening , when is it all going to end PJ ??

As well as having selective reasoning PJ, you also have selective reading.
Oh and you can now add drama queen to the list.
Every now and again someone has to come along and try to stop the nation from destroying itself. This time the mantle has fell onto my strong shoulders.

Wow. You do know that you're just a bloke on a message board. A bloke that, it seems to me, no-one is listening to or taking seriously. Personally, I think you're on a massive wind up and you're enjoying the attention. Either that, or it's much worse. In all honesty, I'm dafter than you for replying.

You are wasting your time Mr Blackwell, they don't want to see it. There is no evidence when your eyes and minds are closed tightly shut.
Anybody who exposes them is a drama queen, a tory wet dream, a racist etc etc.
Even when the likes of The Times has evidence, they don't believe it. Even when it is their own leaked documents they don't believe it.
They will still trot along to the polling booths and put their vote behind this evil party.
It is not too late to repent.

You may well be a bloke on a message board, but you do have the right to debate and express an opinion. Just because the consensus on the topic is against you is nether here nor there.
To mock or denigrate opposing views just because they are in the minority does not make the majority right.

I’m not sure anyone has mocked his views.

He has mocked people.

Loads of reasoned words have been wasted on his posts.

Tice was door knocking last night with a few of those ex tories who are now Brexit Councillors along with a dodgy guy who i thought was Farage.
Had a shower after.

I got a personal message from Caroline Flint today. A brilliant MP for the past 22 years.

I don't mind words being wasted on me as long as votes aren't wasted on Corbyn.

She not my MP but shes one of the best in Parliament.

She certainly is but momentum will crush her.
I have never heard anyone, except momentum, say anything against her.
She should be a leading light in the labour party but because she is a moderate who believes in the value of business and the value of the workforce working together, she is not radical enough for the hard left.
She will be forced out either by the de selection route or the hounding out route and the country will lose a talent it can ill afford to be without.
It's not as if the country is bristling with political talent at the moment.
It is a crying shame but there will be a lot more crying in this country if the hardliners get their way.
Apparently I am now a troll, and people are being encouraged to stop feeding me and that is a perfect example of how these hardliners work.
That is exactly what they are doing to Caroline.
It's a pity that the country might have to find out the hard way rather than listen to the likes of Caroline.
But hey you pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

Ah, you must be the troll, sounds like you’re winning.

Johnsons latest embarrassing episode is just too bad to repeat. And yet he is going to win because he has promised to get brexit done fifteen million times.

And then he sent his daft puppet matt Hancock to repair the damage.And still.workimg class people are going to vote for them.

https://www.channel4.com/news/racism-in ... Remi2Xzn2s

How can anyone of any ideology consider this knuckle dragging OK? Pure disbelief.

Momentum's very own Angela Rayner is demonstrating momentum's tactics as we speak. Shout everybody down, listen to nobody, bully everybody as she proudly boasts how they took over the labour party.

She was actually quite sensible. Compare her to a couple of others on that panel. Farage the racist and the Tory housing minister that owns 3 Homes over £5m. The irony cant be lost on anyone

John, I'm happy to have your endorsement that I'm not racist and that I have never given you the cause to call me racist.
Perhaps people will believe you, perhaps they won't.
Personally I don't think they will believe you simply because it suits them to have something to throw at me.
On your other point on "addressing my other points" I don't think you need to bother unless you intend to finally admit that the labour party is guilty of racism and that if you vote for them you are aware that you are endorsing a party that falls woefully short when it comes to tackling racism.
I really don't want to be lectured by people who give the impression of zero tolerance on racism and then openly support people who are guilty both of harbouring racism and failing to rid themselves of it.
There is only one sure way of eliminating racism in any political party and that is to withdraw support until the said parties put their house in order.
On this point I intend to practise what I preach and I would urge you to do likewise.

To be a better extremist than the other extremists on the panel is an endorsement to nowhere. An extremist is an extremist whatever banner they unfold.
She absolutely excelled when it came to interrupting everyone else but only if that sort of behaviour appeals to you.
Not for me I'm afraid.
I wouldn't give houseroom to any on that panel. I did think the Welsh guy did ok given the fact that he hasn't a hope in hell of achieving anything to match his obvious passion and good intent.

To be a better extremist than the other extremists on the panel is an endorsement to nowhere. An extremist is an extremist whatever banner they unfold.
She absolutely excelled when it came to interrupting everyone else but only if that sort of behaviour appeals to you.
Not for me I'm afraid.
I wouldn't give houseroom to any on that panel. I did think the Welsh guy did ok given the fact that he hasn't a hope in hell of achieving anything to match his obvious passion and good intent.

You do realise that only a few hundred pools fans read this right? And the vast majority live in hartlepool and by not voting will probably let the brexit party in and so by fighting your very odd definition of racism you would get a proper racist mp. Oh the irony.

If the people of Hartlepool vote the brexit party in instead of labour it is because for three and one half years the labour party dillied and dallied over supporting brexit, support which they put in their manifesto, then changing their mind, squabbling amongst themselves, culminating in their leader taking a neutral stance.
It is nobody's fault but their own.
The brexit party could split the labour vote right across the country, thus letting the tories in because the tory vote will remain solid, in spite of johnson.
Sod all to do with irony.
Traditional labour supporters are split on brexit and split on corbyn. Too many splits equals disaster.
Added to the fact that the triumverate of Corbyn McDonnell and Abbott is a separate disaster on it's own.
If labour could hold on to their traditional vote they might have a chance and they could get lucky but i wouldn't bet on it.
After ten years of tory austerity they should be a racing certainty but they are concocting defeat from the jaws of victory.
People on here are amazed at what johnson is getting away with. The reason is right under their nose but they just can't see it.
Oh well never mind ......bedtime.

Fuck me, You really are a cap doffing Tory shit gibbon

I win this thread

I think the Daily Mash have been reading Derwents cries for help......sorry I I meant posts ;

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/features ... 1209191606

‘Cries for help’, .... seriously? I see someone merely debating their point of view and being met with sneering abuse apart from the post above yours which turns pig ignorance into an art form.
Has it reached the point where anyone who doesn’t toe the party line is treat like this...? Are people so marinaded in their own political prejudices they turn into bullies.
Fuck this, I’m out of what was once a great board when someone as reasonable as Derwent gets this sort of treatment.

With all due respect have you even read the thread? Or the article linked (which is satirical).

Have you read some of the stuff he has posted? Plenty of reasoned debate has been attempted and not reciprocated. It really isn’t bullying any more than the term ‘looney left’. He has been asked countless very fair questions and refused to answer them.

Seriously man have you read this thread? From what I can glean from his numerous long rambling posts he appears to be out for revenge after he was embarrassed on the racist thread (Claiming he had been educated over the word coloured and gollywog) and has since tried to justify it all by claiming the rest of the world are equally racist. If you believe that is debating and reasonable then I am the Hartlepool monkey.

Brilliant but if the moronic we must get brexit done lot read it, it will read like a call to arms.

Was listening to Ed Milliband on the radio the other day. he talked about the deep and long lasting effect his treatment at the hands of the mainstream media, especially four billionaire-owned right wing tabloids, before the 2015 election had on him and those he loved. It made me think about how Corbyn is being portrayed now, and about the treatment meted out to every single Labour leader in my lifetime - with the exception of one.

According to the billionaire-owned majority press and the broadcasting authorities they mostly manage to bully into following their line, ALL Labour leaders are 'unelectable'. It is a basic rule of thumb. Politically and economically they are the enemy. The only way a leader bucks the trend is by prostrating himself before them and guaranteeing not to do anything unacceptable to them - as Blair did with Murdoch.

That is why Blair is the one leader who escaped the treatment. Foot got the donkey jacket, Kinnock the lightbulb head, Miliband the bacon sandwich. Corbyn is getting the kitchen sink. And the principal reason he's getting the most disgusting treatment from the media any political leader has ever received in this country is because he proved that he, and his policies, are certainly not 'unelectable.' At the last election he achieved the biggest swing to Labour since the Second World War - with policies that absolutely terrify the 1%. That is why their media machine has nearly imploded with loathing, lies, fury and insults.

The next leader - whoever he/she is, whenever he/she takes office - will receive exactly the same treatment. They will be declared 'unelectable' too. It is NOTHING to do with policies. It's because they are Labour leader. That is not democracy, and commentators all over Europe agree that the British media is the most biased on the continent. It's like playing on Yeovil's old sloping pitch. with the referee bribed by four unelected billionaires too.

They hate any Labour leader , who is a threat to their wealth, who wants to take a bit of their money and power , in order to make your lives better, the decent majority not the nasty, evil , power crazy, greedy few.

The one thing we have is an army of committed activists who outnumber the opposition literally ten to one , so we always will have a chance, if we don't win this time, then we wont go away, we will be there next time , quite possibly in even greater numbers. The people born during the good times, after the war, the ones who had pensions, mortgages. redundancy payments. Monday to Friday working hours. double time on a Saturday, treble on a Sunday. double or treble plus a day in lieu if working a bank holiday , decent pay, trades union rights, compensation claims. paid sick leave , free healthcare, social care, community facilities, better public transport, subsidised canteens, free buses to work, council houses, cheap rents etc , wont be around much longer, it they vote tory they will have betrayed the younger generation, many of whom wont have any of those things , because of the greed and selfishness of their parents and grandparents. Shame on you.

One thing is for sure if the tories do win, I doubt you will here much about Anti-Semitism in the news from Friday onwards.

A crumb of comfort I take is actually from a disturbing conversation I ahd with my brother in law yesterday. Now he is a vegan, and something of a rebel when it comes to politics. Used to be a member of CND animal rights groups and just about every left wing organisation there was. Older now and quite well off but still a vegan. Is actually voting tory. I was amazed. But then I thought on. If he and a few others do that then maybe just maybe it will help split the tory and brexit vote and leave labour ahead with a minority victory. Heres hoping.

Its incredible though that a fella nearly 60 suddenly votes tory just when he is now in that very comfortable financial position where he cares more about not paying a bit more tax than he does about the planet and everything else he used to care about. Thats a very long time to be a hypocrite.

Haven't watched the programme to which you refer, so I can't comment on it.
You people need to make your minds up. You now say I'm a brexit party fan, the guy following you says I'm a tory gibbon. Have a meeting guys and decide your policy. It's no wonder you follow the hard left, they also say the first thing that enters their heads.
In case you weren't aware, not even I can vote for more than one party. So at least one of you is wrong and in fact both of you are.
If you think Hartlepool is full of racists then that's your choice. I don't live in Hartlepool so I don't hear the general day to day patter to be able to tell. So I can't help you on that one.
I do find it ironic though that some people on here constantly call out the lies told by politicians and then try to back up their arguments with me by telling lies about me.
For instance......
They say I'm a tory.......I'm not
They say I'm a brexit party fan........I'm not.
They say I'm a racist....I'm not
They say I'm a troll..........I'm not
They say I'm a tory gibbon......I'm not
They say I'm a tory wet dream.......I'm not
They say I'm a daily mail reader.......I'm not.
But the best one is they say I'm not being abused.....the biggest lie of all.
I'm not hurt by any of it, it is actually quite amusing. It paints a fantastic picture of you lot.
Something else I have uncovered.
Whilst you lot have been abusing me, you have left your usual targets alone. Just like the mill house moaners, you usually have your favourite people to pick on. Like Monkeybutt!!!!!! Mr Butt must think he's on holiday.

You may have a point on vote splitting but, in the North, the majority of brexiteers are also labour supporters, whereas tories always seem to close ranks. Why would a tory brexiteer vote for the brexit party when the major thrust of his/her party is get brexit done. If there is vote splitting i think the labour party are likely to suffer most.
Your best crumb of comfort is there's nowt so queer as folk. I still wouldn't like to call it.
I don't know your brother but all he is doing is exercising choice.
I am getting comments like "I never thought you would turn against labour" my answer is " I haven't turned against labour, I have turned against what they have become" Funnily enough quite a lot of traditional labour supporters say they agree. Perhaps your brother has changed because of that too.
Like I keep on saying, labour's biggest threat is from within. But we all choose what we think is the best.

One last post on this thread. Derwent; there's a massive inconsistency in your posts on this thread. You say you can't vote for Corbyn. But you like your sitting MP who is not part of momentum and doesn't toe the momentum line. Now, there's a shit load wrong with first past the post, but one of the good things about it is that you vote for an individual, the MP. We don't have a presidential system; you're not voting for Corbyn to be PM (and, given the polls, he won't be). If there's one thing we've seen over the last 5 years is that individual MPs are able to express their view more and vote accordingly in Commons' debates. Seems simple to me; you vote for your MP, who you respect and who you expect to do the right thing. Would that be a vote for Corbyn or momentum. Not really, if your MP acts as you say she does.

It gets better on here.
I am now being accused of seeking revenge because of a previous thread.
On that thread I used the word coloured and I was jumped on. It shocked me. I genuinely wasn't aware of the abhorrence against that word and I apologised for using it and have never used it to describe anybody since, either on here or anywhere else.
I accepted the education, graciously. It was my ignorance and I thanked all those involved for putting me right.
I'm not sure what else I can do to be honest.
I was watching and listening to Mark Bright a few weeks ago and he was discussing racism in football ( I'm assuming everyone knows of him) he referred to himself as coloured. I thought bloody hell I got slaughtered for using that description but then I thought, I suppose he can call himself what he likes.
It was on the BBC.

Has anyone seen this about the Brexit party in Hartlepool.........Type "Undercover filming reveals racism in key Brexit Party campaign" into youtube.

Absolutely disgusting.

https://www.facebook.com/paulbigbaldaly ... 9590285923

Now trying to discredit a mother who's kid was left on a hospital floor.

I watched that Mr Derwent and I took it that he was using the 'polite' term that was used to describe him and other black players when he was a young player.

On the Caroline Flint issue there is one thing that puzzles me:

I've never been a Labour Party member in my life but through union activities I experienced just how brutal the Labour right can be when it comes to fighting their corner. What you could call "traditional Labour" people were more than happy to manipulate rules and agendas and even work hand in glove with employers to try to get people sacked if it helped them to keep control of the union.

I'm sure Caroline Flint has had a hard time but to be honest I'd be very surprised if she hadn't dished out some very harsh treatment herself over the years. Most long-running politicians of all parties have lots of bodies buried the patio. What puzzles me is why we're meant to condemn the left as undemocratic despots when they do what the right were experts at for years, aprticularly under Kinnock and then Blair? I tend to think it is mostly a case of what goes around comes around.

In the hope that getting back to election predictions is allowed here's one for you:

All the polls are adjusted for the "shy Tory" factor. Basically it means that people who intend to vote Labour or LibDem are happy to be public with their views whereas some Tory voters feel ashamed of saying so and pretend to be floating voters who haven't decided yet. I don't think that will be the case this time because Brexit has chnaged the political atmosphere so much - people will openly say, "Tory to get it done".

So, I reckon the polls are adding a factor that no longer applies and over-estimating the Tory lead as a result. Therefore I reckon very close but ending with a hung parliament and Mr I pleasuring that tramp in Binns' window yet again.

You will have noticed that I don't normally respond to your posts and considering you made a plea to everyone to ignore me just a short time ago, no one should be surprised if I ignored this one as well.If I want to ignore somebody, I just do it. I don't make pleas for anyone else to gang up alongside me.
That's what bully boys do.

However it is a fair question and one which I have asked myself over and over again.

First of all I have been most consistent on this thread. I don't support either of the main parties, I don't support any form of racism, however minute. I don't support momentum and abhor the backstabbing of traditional labour supporters. If they want to stand on a hard left ticket they should have formed their own party. I have criticised both of them but labour more because others have described the tories well enough but left labour alone. Time and time again I have said the same things.
I have been most consistent.

On to Caroline.
She is a brilliant MP for us and has been for 22 years. She was a remain supporter but because her constituents voted leave she has backed them in every vote. She has said that herself and, although I haven't actually checked that, I have no reason to doubt her.
Her influence on the party is zero, unfortunately. Moderates are being isolated and to her credit she has remained steadfast whilst others have given in but to no avail.
I am aware that my cross goes against Caroline's name but not only does it confirm my belief of her competence to stand up for me, it also endorses the current labour party and it endorses corbyn. I do not wish to endorse corbyn or the current labour party.
I honestly believe that she will be either hounded out or de selected and then replaced by a hardliner. I am not prepared to take that risk.
I am very sad at the decision to abandon her and that is what I am doing so I'll call a spade a spade but I am doing it for the bigger picture.
No more to say really.

That'll be Tory head office. Which they will deny shortly or make up some ridiculous excuse why it was ok to do it.

Thanks for answering.

If they hound her out, they can only hound her out of the party; she'll still be the sitting MP. If she resigns as the MP, there'll be a by-election. If she has no influence, and doesn't toe the party line, you're not supporting Corbyn; you're voting for her. It seems to me that you can confidently vote for her and stick by what you're saying here.

I have already said it will be close and I also have said I can't call it and wouldn't even try.

On Caroline, no one has ever even whispered anything nasty about Caroline, nor have I seen it, apart from Momentum
Talking of unions.
If a third of workers in particular companies are to be co opted onto the board and therefore attend board meetings, would the rest of the board be allowed to attend union meetings

Caroline Flint eh? One that campaigned for remain but is now repeating the mantra brexit means brexit. One might be forgiven for thinking she now supports brexit to protect her position as her constituency voted leave meaning she no longer gives a stuff about those that voted remain. Now before anyone goes off on one many Labour MPs would accept leave if the deal left the UK better off, or no worse off, than remaining. But she hasnt done that. She has gone full on Brexit means brexit. An undercover Tory.