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 Post subject: Re: New Words
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:23 pm 
richard head wrote:
I hate to be a nitpicker but "j'irai " doesn't mean anything of the sort.



OK I'll go now.


Surely the two mean the same at least sometimes...and when that happens they are both future tense. Meaning is determined by context, isn't it?
You and Kev seem to be on separate issues here.
I can't see any argument for saying English doesn't have a future tense other than that English doesn't have a specific future verb ending....which seems to me a trivial point. But if anyone wants to make that point then obviously it's true. English nevertheless has a future tense by employing methods other than verb endings. On Kev's argument you could equally turn it round and say that French doesn't have a future tense because it uses constructions different from English.
I think this is my last post on he subject as Mr I is on the prowl this afternoon and may ban us on grounds of inducing boredom :grin:


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 Post subject: Re: New Words
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:52 pm 
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I think I can safely say you missed the whole point this time grabec :wink:

J'irai does not mean I shall see in any way you can imagine.

Sorry for pulling such a cheap trick. :laugh:

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 Post subject: Re: New Words
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:33 pm 
Ah. Maintenant I see. it has been a hard semaine for me :uhoh: :uhoh:


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 Post subject: Re: New Words
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:11 am 
grabec wrote:
richard head wrote:
I hate to be a nitpicker but "j'irai " doesn't mean anything of the sort.



OK I'll go now.


Surely the two mean the same at least sometimes...and when that happens they are both future tense. Meaning is determined by context, isn't it?
You and Kev seem to be on separate issues here.
I can't see any argument for saying English doesn't have a future tense other than that English doesn't have a specific future verb ending....which seems to me a trivial point. But if anyone wants to make that point then obviously it's true. English nevertheless has a future tense by employing methods other than verb endings. On Kev's argument you could equally turn it round and say that French doesn't have a future tense because it uses constructions different from English.
I think this is my last post on he subject as Mr I is on the prowl this afternoon and may ban us on grounds of inducing boredom :grin:


No, the point is that just because you translate someone else's future tense into English, the English translation doesn't become said future tense in it's purest form. It's just the nearest approximation available to it.


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 Post subject: Re: New Words
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:44 am 
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The ideal for me is to give the reader of the translated text an identical experience to that of the reader of the original. This is not always possible and so we have to make best approximations. For example word order can often mean you get a surprise at the end of a sentence in one language but not the other. A French sentence will typically tell you all the incidental matters before getting down to the nitty gritty. In English we tend to go straight for the jugular.

Future tense I'll admit is a minor difficulty and there are plenty of similar ones, like our subdued (nowadays almost entirely absent) use of the subjunctive. Fortunately for me I don't have to deal with a language that has also declarative, energetic, generic, cohortative, dubitative, eventive, hypothetical, inferential, jussive, optative, potential, and presumptive moods!

OK that's me finished with this topic it's too much like being at work :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: New Words
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:37 am 
Image

Eh??


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 Post subject: Re: New Words
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:29 pm 
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richard head wrote:
The ideal for me is to give the reader of the translated text an identical experience to that of the reader of the original. This is not always possible and so we have to make best approximations. For example word order can often mean you get a surprise at the end of a sentence in one language but not the other. A French sentence will typically tell you all the incidental matters before getting down to the nitty gritty. In English we tend to go straight for the jugular.

Future tense I'll admit is a minor difficulty and there are plenty of similar ones, like our subdued (nowadays almost entirely absent) use of the subjunctive. Fortunately for me I don't have to deal with a language that has also declarative, energetic, generic, cohortative, dubitative, eventive, hypothetical, inferential, jussive, optative, potential, and presumptive moods!

OK that's me finished with this topic it's too much like being at work :evil:


Could you tell me something please Monty? Are you a translator because you are in France, or are you in France because you are a translator? Also, are you fluent in Spanish, anticipating your possible move to South America?

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 Post subject: Re: New Words
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:16 pm 
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BillinghamPoolie wrote:
Could you tell me something please Monty? Are you a translator because you are in France, or are you in France because you are a translator?

I thought I said I was finished with this topic!! :laugh:
But I will answer anyway. It is my living in France that has given me a good enough comprehension of the French language to be a translator. The most important quality nonetheless remains being able to write good English.
As for the Spanish, well I guess I'll just have to learn that if ever I move to one of their colonies.

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 Post subject: Re: New Words
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:22 pm 
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Shouldn't that be 'write proper english'? :laugh: :laugh:

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