We are all leaving. No ifs or buts. The election majority will be overwhelming for Boris and we'll be out in short order. All the rest of these conversations are no more than wallpaper and hot air.

I think you will find northern ireland isn't leaving like the rest of the uk. Unless johnson gets his majority and proves he has lied yet again. But of course he is well known as a serial liar. Alas that fact doesn't seem to bother some.

He's not. He has been forced into not achieving promises. Anyway, I don't give a shit about that worn out accusation much like the rest of the country, people just understand its mud slinging.

Utter nonsense. He has been looking for a general election for months and had 3 attempts at calling one. He should be dead in a ditch as he promised.

Wow, you worked it out and he hid his desire for an election so well. Why were his attempts unsuccessful? because MP's were playing games, no other reason. With the chunky majority forthcoming those days will be over.

All the moral high ground seekers on here who attack anybody and everybody over racism and profess to have zero tolerance on racism and so they should, seem to have a red mist moment when they show their preference for the Labour Party and it's leader to represent our Country. A party who have a racist history and refuse to accept and eradicate the racist problems within their party. The Labour party is riddled with anti semitism and you people who abhor racism and profess zero tolerance of racism need to stand up and be counted or be forever branded as hypocrites of the highest order.

I am not sure I have seen many people supporting Corbyn on here since horden stopped posting.

You seem to have agenda since you made a bit of a fool of yourself regarding the fallout from the Dover game. I’m no fan of Corbyn but I am fairly surely he’s less racist than your average Tory and certainly Boris Johnson, he’s an idealist, a tree hugger. A lot of the West’s foreign policy of the years has been wrong and has caused a lot of shit in the World.

The red top media are using exactly the same smears as the last election so the wealthiest people get the poorest and most gullible to conform. It’s pure propaganda. The Labour Party should have been wise to this though and offered us an electable leader against the worst government and Prime Minister in modern history.

And how long has Corbyn been bleating on about a general election and then, when offered one, refused to take part because it didn't suit him or his party. Not like Mr Corbyn to put himself and his party before the needs of the country and not like you to back a party that is riddled with anti semitism, based on your previous stance on racism.
Please excuse me if I find it difficult to agree with someone who professes to be zero tolerant on racism but conveniently ignores racism when the party he supports is riddled with it.

No agenda PJ.
It is interesting to learn that Corbyn is less racist than Johnson and the Tories.
Being less racist, as you say, is nevertheless a recognition that he is racist. Thank you for backing me on this.
This the dilemma for me.
Is being less racist acceptable or tolerable?
I get the impression that you and others on here are zero tolerant on racism and I applaud that as that is also my stance on the subject.
Therefore I hope you and others on here will join me in outing those who allow racism in their parties and certainly refuse to support them.
I am doing this by refusing to vote Labour for the first time since the 1960's.
Just in case anybody is curious, I have not yet made up my mind as to where my vote will go, if indeed it goes anywhere.

It's great when people make assumptions.ptions when the truth is actually written in a few posts earlier. So to recap just for you.

I said both the parties were awful.

I want a hung parliament because it's the safest option.

I will be voting labouring hartlepool tactically to stop hopefully the brexit party winning a seat and embarrassing our town.

I am no lover of corbyn either.

I have no idea about his alleged racism though.

Boris johnson is a horrible human being out fir boris Johnson and will trample on anyone that gets in his way incl a number of moderate tories that are far better people than him.

Hope that clarifies a few things for you.

Anything to say PJ?

[quote="Watching from afar"]It's great when people make assumptions.ptions when the truth is actually written in a few posts earlier. So to recap just for you.

I said both the parties were awful.

I want a hung parliament because it's the safest option.

I will be voting labouring hartlepool tactically to stop hopefully the brexit party winning a seat and embarrassing our town.

I am no lover of corbyn either.

I have no idea about his alleged racism though.

Boris johnson is a horrible human being out fir boris Johnson and will trample on anyone that gets in his way incl a number of moderate tories that are far better people than him.

Hope that clarifies a few things for you.[/quote]
What it clarifies is that you are prepared to vote for a party which has been in the news ad nauseam covering the anti semitism activities of said party led by Corbyn and yet you claim to be unaware of those activities or even of Corbyn's involvement. Really????? You profess to have zero tolerance of racism but are preparing to vote for a party accused of racism. Don't you think there is a certain amount of double standards afoot here.
Two faced doesn't begin to cover it.

So you have proof that Corbyn is anti semitic? And proof of his racism?

And to clarify further yes I am prepared to vote for what I believe to be the least worst option.

And I want to preserve the nhs.

And I wont vote for anyone friends with trump.

So much for zero tolerance racism.
Keep going boys, it is a very long rope.

So you have proof that Corbyn is anti semitic? And proof of his racism?

[/quote]



You'll need to explain the resignations and complaints from Labour MP's and members before i get started.


And who supplies you lot with the blindfolds?? let me have a guess..

I offered an alternative months ago. Get rid of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott, ditch momentum and go back to the reality that in order for Labour to get into power they have to be electable.
You don't want a tory government and yet you are prepared to back a regime that will give you one. So basically getting rid of Corbyn and his marxists is your best alternative but you neeeeeed to be clever enough to spot that. Hows about opening your eyes and putting your brain into gear. It's not too late.
THE BEST RECRUITING SERGEANT THE TORY PARTY HAS EVER HAD IS CORBYN ET AL.
There's Your answer.

[quote="phil"]. Nigel Farage? He's a tin pot Oswald Moseley.
he is far from that. moseley was in favour of a united europe .

Exactly. I dont really want either so I want a hung parliament. Derwent clearly doesn't read what's put in front of him. And I want brexit stopping. As it wont affect derwent or me I want the younger generation to decide if they want to carry this stupid idea through. They are the ones that will suffer most.

Early edition of Newsnight where Paxamus confronts Johnsonus on his failure to deliver on his numerous promises.

With thanks to Bowes museum.

But you will vote for someone who claims terrorist organisations are among his friends?

I have explained fully my reasons for voting the way I will. Not sure what's so difficult to understand. As for corbyn well he wouldnt be my choice for PM in a million years but I would rather have him than eton tory boy and his billionaire friends and billionaire bank account. But hopefully neither gets a majority.

You wrote earlier in this thread that you are going to vote labour in this coming election, so it isn't the case that I can't read but rather the case that you don't know what you write or what you're talking about. You are waffling simply because you are anti racist with reservations and have been found out.
You have also stated that I am speaking hypothetically and then go on to hypothetically state as fact that I will be voting for either Corbyn or Johnson.
Put yer shovel away, Laddie. You are confused and out of your depth.

I have never voted tory in my life and the day after I vote for Corbyn you'll find me in a ditch.

Anybody who professes to be anti racist and then votes for labour or any other form of racist group will always be classed by me as a hypocrite.

As I said months ago and earlier in this thread I don't know who to vote for but Corbyn is definitely out of the running. I haven't got a preferred candidate so I may not even vote at all. I'd rather not vote at all than vote for a racist or a marxist. At this moment in time I am an abstainer. I can't vote for the party I always vote for but neither do I want to vote against it.
That is MY dilemma so no one else need worry their heads about it.

Yes you have explained your position and we all know what you are going to do. The point is in doing what you have explained you are going to do you are openly supporting a party who have a history of racism against the Jews and yet only a few short weeks ago you were totally against racism and volunteered no tolerance towards it but now you have watered that tolerance down and are supporting a racist group simply because, in your opinion, that is the lesser of the two evils.
Don't get me wrong. You are entitled to vote as you wish.
A few short weeks ago, you and others were instructing me on racism and how there should be no tolerance of racism. NONE WHATSOEVER I believed you and accepted what you said and still do and now you are proposing to back a group who are known racists. All I am asking is you practise what you preach. How can you have any credibility if you don't?????????????? Think about it.

Politicians of all parties can promise what they want. However we have no recourse if they choose not to deliver what they have promised like taking them to court.
I will be voting for who i think is honest enough to deliver.

I see no context or reason that Corbyn could be accused of being racist, supporting the Palestinian cause doesn’t make him an anti-semite. Surely if you are going to call someone racist you need some evidence and examples of racist behaviour to back it up? I’m no fan of his and he’s many things, but a racist? It’s just what certain people want you to believe so you conform.

This covers the whole issue in a pretty balanced way the author is a Jewish non supporter of Corbyn;

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2019/1 ... m.html?m=1

The Police and the EHRC are investigating them..great news.

Scotland is part of the UK. The UK has a huge National Debt.

On what basis will Scotland's proportion of the National Debt be allocated?

I get the impression that Nicola thinks they can walk away with a clean sheet.

PJ. I dont think evidence facts or even reading other posts properly are being used here. I suspect it's just the daily mail. So if Iran and Iraq go to war again and Johnson supports Iran does that make him racist for not supporting Iraq? It must do right using the logic on here?

Interesting article. The very first sentence rings the bells for me and it should for some members of the bunker. Remember when it was condemned to say "I am not a racist but......" Mr Madjohn,a reasonable sort of fellow, gave his opinion on it and, indeed, put it on his bunker identity or whatever it is called. It is quoted on all his current posts.

The article starts "There is no doubt that there is anti semitism in the labour party" followed by the infamous word "But".
The article says the racism is tiny and that there is racism in other parties.
Nothing however suggests zero tolerance of racism exists which is the thrust of my argument. The article suggests that there are varying degrees of interpretation. which is fair comment, but it says there is no doubt that anti semitism exists within the party and indeed other parties.
As another poster has said the police and EHRC are investigating the party so it is safe to assume that those bodies must see that there is a case to answer.
If the author of the article has evidence of other parties being racist then, in my opinion, he should present his evidence to the authorities, so that, they too, can be investigated.
This bunker taught me, and I am grateful for that, that we should never tolerate or encourage any form of racism, no matter how small it is or where it emanates.
We are all agreed on this and we should not deviate unless of course we aren't as serious as we said we are.

I agree with your example on Iran and Iraq.
I don't get the daily mail bit. I don't read it and wouldn't have it in the house.
Everybody's posts get twisted, like your interpretation that I would vote for either Johnson or Corbyn. There isn't a post in existence where I said i would vote for either of them.
So you are as guilty as the next man of misinterpretation.
You have quite categorically stated you are going to vote labour, you also have demonstrated that you have zero tolerance of racism, and PJ's example quite categorically states that there is no doubt that anti semitism exists within the labour party.
Vote for who you like our kid but never try to lecture me or anyone else on racism.
The moral high ground is not in your care.
This has been flogged to death now and there is not much more to be said because if we continue along this vein by digging up he said this and she said that, more and more our zero tolerance of racism will be questioned.

I feel like i have entered an alternative universe here

What it actually says to not paraphrase is;

"There is no doubt that the Labour Party has a problem with antisemitism" the but is fairly key though "but the figures (see below) suggest it involves a tiny minority. Claims that the party is "riddled with antisemitism" are a deliberate lie.

Note the term 'deliberate lie'. The wealthiest people who would suffer financially under a Corbyn government need an angle to attack from which will see enough normal people conform to this lie and give them what they want. Look up the front page of The Sun on the day of the last election, it's outright propaganda.

Any political party are going to have questionable individuals involved, they are politicians at the end of the day If you are going to take this moral stance it's up to you but I'd suggest it means you probably can't vote for anyone as a result.

Corbyn is a massive issue for the Labour party I agree, he is the wrong man to be leader. But all of this terrorist sympathiser antisemitism nonsense is to scare the poor people away from actually doing what they should be in this situation, voting Labour. I don't think he's the right man to lead our country at all but Boris Johnson cannot be allowed to secure a majority next month or we're fucked. This hideous human being flanked by hideous human beings is taking Great Britain down a very dangerous path after over three years of absolute chaos. Just about every public service is in crisis including the NHS, families are starving, homeless people are dying on the streets whilst people have been distracted from this sickening chaos by the whole Brexit farce, again which the Tories are entirely to blame for. This should override anything it can't be allowed to continue.



As I said that was the day of the last General Election.

I'm really flattered that you think I can predict anything in this election. However I think being complimentary is furthermost from your mind.
I'd love to be confident enough to have a crack at your question. I'd like to know what your answer is though.

[quote="PJPoolie"][

"There is no doubt that the Labour Party has a problem with antisemitism" the but is fairly key though "but the figures (see below) suggest it involves a tiny minority. Claims that the party is "riddled with antisemitism" are a deliberate lie.

for me showing support to the arabs and palestine does not make you an anti semite unless that is the reason you support them which i really doubt is the case. same with the farage mob who want to end free movement does not make em racists either for the same reason. think we are too hung up on the anti semitism issue where people seem frightened to criticise isreal in anything they do in fear of it being thrown at them.

PJ, You are quite rightly totally against racism
To me that is zero tolerance.
You and others convinced me that is the correct stance to have.
I have adopted that stance.
You are now giving me doubts and you're not the only one.
You and the article you highlighted say that within the labour party it is only a tiny amount.
I say a tiny amount is too many and I would have sworn that, to you, a tiny amount is too many.
It also begs the question "How difficult is it to root out a tiny amount?" Is Corbyn even capable of doing that?
However you must do and say as you see fit according to your conscience.
Being a newcomer to total anti racism I cannot accept anything short of that.
You are either zero tolerant or you're not. Which is it????
I don't want to get into whether Johnson and those around him are hideous. I don't use that sort of language about any of them and I'm not starting here.
We all know what politicians do and say and most, if not all, twist, turn and spin to suit themselves and that could be described as deliberately lying but we all know that. There's no revelation there.
Your assumption is that I can't vote for any of them, well haven't I already said that?

Question for PJ.
You have launched a massive attack on both the main parties, on both Corbyn and Johnson. We both have the same thoughts
The tories for their history since 2010 and labour, who technically should be miles ahead, with their inability to convince the electorate that they are any better.
I have outlined my dilemma as who to vote for so how about you???? Any idea???

I thought vote Labour would have been clear enough from what I’ve said, it’s a tactical vote as they aren’t going to win the election thanks to Corbyn but it’s crucial that Boris Johnson fails to secure a majority. Keeping the Brexit Party out of Towns like Hartlepool is key to this.

Phil, you may be absolutely right about racism within the tory party and I would suggest that some people could include the brexit party, citing their obsession with immigration and even the snp with their form of nationalism but the fact still remains that the labour party is the one under investigation.
However you seem to like asking questions so let's ask you one.
There is an obvious leaning towards the acceptance that there is a tiny amount of racism or anti semitism within the labour party so wouldn't you think that rooting that out would be fairly easy?

That's interesting. You are coming across as voting for the lesser of two evils, like some others, although you describe it as voting tactically. Fair enough.
From what I can gather from talking to regular labour voters like myself who don't want Corbyn any where near Downing St, they are leaning towards Johnson.
It looks to me that some tactical voting will keep Johnson out and some will let him in.
I think normal labour voters are the key. Though they will not directly vote for Johnson they might vote for brexit or lib dems,or maybe abstain, thus splitting the normal labour vote and letting the tories in. Normal tory voters are less liable to defect elsewhere.
I don't want to vote FOR labour but my reluctance is I don't want to vote AGAINST them. As I have said that is my dilemma.
I wouldn't be surprised if the splitting of the traditional labour vote in Hartlepool resulted in a tory victory because i think the tory vote will stay strong.
Very difficult to predict anything in this election, even the turnout.

Aye the massive recruitment of members a few years back raised a lot of questions as to who these members actually are and their reasons for joining. I preferred the quality of membership as against the quantity although more members are always welcome. I know a guy who joined simply to vote for anything left wing and the more left wing the better. He is actually rank right wing.
It keeps them out of power he said, because no one will ever fall for their crack brained schemes.

Traditional labour voters Voting for boris johnson because you dont like Jeremy Corbyn is one of the maddest ideas I have ever heard. Its barking. I could understand voting lib dems as a protest but johnson? The world has most definitely gone nuts.

I agree it’s strange and I won’t do that but some people will and that is their choice. Voting for garage is just as daft in my book but they’ll do that too. Get rid of Corby and you might get them back

You? Maybe you hadn't read this in a previous post but I am not a labour party member and nor will I ever be. Getting rid of corbyn isn't my concern. As long as I help stop brexit that's all that matters just now. And if any lunatic decides to vote for johnson then he/she can have 5 years of pain with pleasure.

It’s a general you !!!!!

The problem is that the lunatics voting for Johnson are going to give the vast majority of us 5 more years of pain.

Apparently a million people have registered to vote in the last 17 days and the door doesn't shut for a few more days.
Probably young people looking to the future.

Good luck to them all.
If they find the best person to look after their future, I hope they pass it on to the rest of us because i haven't a clue.
Maybe because I have heard all this bullshit before.
Mind you when Corbyn adds free ale to his list of giveaways, I just might give in.
When Michael Foot announced his "promises" all those years ago ( it was the last time we had the loony left in charge of our party), I think it was Kaufman who said "This is the longest suicide note in history"
The turkeys didn't vote for Xmas then and hopefully won't now.
I can pre-empt the thoughts of some people and at least one person will say " no the turkeys will vote tory"
Well the answer to that one is.....I hope not cos there are millions of them!!!!!!!

honestly has anyone done anything to get you to vote for them in the first place. first time in my life that i am not going to bother. not as straightforward as a choice between the loony left or loony right either or the one in the middle who knocks em both.

Aye Mr Abstainer is gaining in popularity.
The tories under MacMillan took tuppence( old money) off a pint of ale. I was too young to vote then but that might have been my one and only tory vote.

The turnout at the last election was 68.8% so let's hope for a good turnout and that the Apathy party doesn't win this one. In 1950 the turnout was 80%.
I suspect though that many are suffering from overload and are so pissed off they won't vote but the young are becoming more politically connected and I suspect we are going to have surprising results.