Martin McGuiness

johnjo · **Joined:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:57 pm **Posts:** 321

Chip I enjoy your posts but that's pathetic. I agree with you that both sides in Ireland were as bad as each other but the unionists did not come over here killing innocent people in places like Guilford and Birmingham.
Surely even you can see where Tebbit's hate comes from. Hand on heart would you not feel the same these if these 'real evil' bxxxxxs had done that to your family?

johnjo · **Joined:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:57 pm **Posts:** 321

God I thought I was reading the Socialist Worker. That's not evil its politics and probably the majority of people agreed with him.

johnjo · **Joined:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:57 pm **Posts:** 321

PS
Maybe you can put me right but I remember someone writing that Harold Wilson closed more mines than Thatcher.

johnjo · **Joined:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:57 pm **Posts:** 321

Well chip you say at the time you agreed with the Brighton bombing. You were happy to see the democratic elected government wiped out with the bomb. That says it all.You say some people are not for changing where you looking in the mirror when you wrote that.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Chip never said that at all. I suggest you read it again.

horden · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:30 pm

johnjo wrote:

PS
Maybe you can put me right but I remember someone writing that Harold Wilson closed more mines than Thatcher.

You're right he did , the only difference was then, there were other jobs to go to, cleaner , less dangerous jobs, where you might get the chance to talk to a woman.

Wilson also kept us out of the Vietnam war, had he not done so, there might of been a few old men some of us may know, not here today.

johnjo · **Joined:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:57 pm **Posts:** 321

Colonel - "At the time many of the people I grew up with felt the only tragedy of the Brighton Bomby was that it didn't kill its intended targets. A sentiment I agreed with at the time." What have I misread?

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Thanks for pasting that paragraph again, and confirming that Chip never said he agreed with the bombing.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22670

Goodnight the bunker. When posters start agreeing with the IRa it's time to end something. I won't be involved with something that supports the very organisation that let to the death of so many innocents.

Seriously, say your goodbyes because in a few hours I'll be closing this place.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Who agrees with the IRA?

Have I missed a few pages?

The Orienteer · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:50 pm **Posts:** 69

Mr Irrelevant wrote:

Goodnight the bunker. When posters start agreeing with the IRa it's time to end something. I won't be involved with something that supports the very organisation that let led to the death of so many innocents.

Seriously, say your goodbyes because in a few hours I'll be closing this place.

I share your sentiment. I really can't believe some of the nonsense I'm reading.

But please don't close down this place.

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:21 pm

johnjo wrote:

PS
Maybe you can put me right but I remember someone writing that Harold Wilson closed more mines than Thatcher.

He certainly closed more railway lines than she did. Though to be fair there weren't many left for her to close.

johnjo · **Joined:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:57 pm **Posts:** 321

Yes let's get back to putting Pools right

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22670

Tell it to the families of Corporal Wood and Howes, and 1800 others murdered by McGuiness and his ilk.

Those of us who hold the GSM (NI) are in the main sickened by the praise being heaped upon this bloodthirsty monster. When I see posters actually agreeing with the Brighton bombings I am reading something that I don't want to continue or be involved in.

As for me not knowing what I'm talking about Chip, I'll play time on active service over the water top trumps with you any time you like.

MutleyRules · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:30 pm

Mr Irrelevant wrote:

Goodnight the bunker. When posters start agreeing with the IRa it's time to end something. I won't be involved with something that supports the very organisation that let to the death of so many innocents.

Seriously, say your goodbyes because in a few hours I'll be closing this place.

Come on Mr.I....the Bunker has always been about different opinions!!!!

MutleyRules · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:37 pm

MutleyRules wrote:

Mr Irrelevant wrote:

Goodnight the bunker. When posters start agreeing with the IRa it's time to end something. I won't be involved with something that supports the very organisation that let to the death of so many innocents.

Seriously, say your goodbyes because in a few hours I'll be closing this place.

Come on Mr.I....the Bunker has always been about different opinions!!!!

And btw....you just know some people will be rubbing their hands with glee if this place closes!!!!
Cheers!!!!

johnjo · **Joined:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:57 pm **Posts:** 321

Come on Chip this is just a bit of difference of opinions don't chuck your dummy away I quite enjoy our difference where would we be if we all agreed with everything.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22670

I've just re-read the whole thread and I apologise. What I scan read on my phone wasn't the whole story.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22670

But I withdraw not one word about McGuiness.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

You dont need to.

WE have already accepted you undying love for him.

MutleyRules · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:54 pm

Mr Irrelevant wrote:

I've just re-read the whole thread and I apologise. What I scan read on my phone wasn't the whole story.

Phew!!!!

I bet some people's PM's are in meltdown!!!! :laugh:

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22670

The Colonel wrote:

You dont need to.

WE have already accepted you undying love for him.

Don't push it!

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Basil Fawlty · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:02 pm

Thank fook for tour change of heart Mr I. Thought I was going to have to go upstairs and shag Sybil for a few terrifying minutes there.......

Brian Honour's Left Foot · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:35 pm

Basil Fawlty wrote:

Thank fook for tour change of heart Mr I. Thought I was going to have to go upstairs and shag Sybil for a few terrifying minutes there.......

Can we just ban all discussion about anything which doesn't relate to Pools, football in general or anything remotely linked to Hartlepool (the mess managed by the Acid Boys)? I have views on everything from the IRA to IKEA, but I don't come on here to talk about those - for those subjects I go down to the pub and bore the buggers there...

poolieinnottingham · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:40 pm

This place would die on its arse if we banned anything not to do with footy.

MutleyRules · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:44 pm

100% true!!!!

MutleyRules · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:16 pm

Chip Fireball wrote:

Apology accepted.

I grew up in a Catholic in a pit village. We were brought up to hate Protestants, foreigners, and Tories. So yes in the mid 80's me and my mates would happily have seen the entire Tory cabinet wiped out by a bomb. It wouldn't have mattered to us who put it there.

Then you get older and in my case I moved away and you meet some of these people you were brought up to hate and you find that actually a lot of them are okay. People are just people, some are good, some are bad, but most are a complex mix of both.

I've never had any sympathies for the IRA though. When you see first hand the aftermath of a bombing you struggle to fathom why anyone would do such a thing. Especially when citizens are targeted .I was in Fleet Street when the Aldywch bomb went off and likewise working in Westminster when they mortar bombed Downing Street.

What pissed me off most though was the constant bomb scares, not being able to go anywhere without the fear of chaos ensuing, one phone call and the entire transport network shut down. Then you have kids and you think to yourself all that needs to happen is for them to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and they could be gone.

The worst thing I can recall was going to an Irish pub in Tooting for a lasses leaving do at work one Friday night in 92 or 93. Place was rammed and it got boisterous about 11 and they all started singing. I felt a bit uncomfortable and then the Irish lass said that they would be coming round with the buckets collecting for the IRA in a second. I thought it was an attempt as self deprecating humour but it actually happened. I said to her I'm not putting in for that and she looked me straight in the eye and said " Well you had better leave and leave quickly then, because you don't want to find out what happens to anyone that doesn't put in "

About half a dozen of us put our coats on and fucked off. And that was at the height of the mainland bombing campaign. Which is why I said that anyone who thinks support for the IRA had dried up was very much wrong. I could name any number of pubs where this was happening, The Swan in Stockwell was notorious for it. Under those circumstances it was easy to see why Irish lads could be slipping into the country and planting bombs and then just melting away.

Again not condoning anything they did, but that mainland bombing campaign, particularly in London was relentless and it just wore people down. John Major was pretty frank about it , after Bishopsgate, there was a realisation things couldn't go on without it doing serious financial damage to the country, the talks began, and if you look at that Wiki link I posted, the attacks in London petered out.

I guess the most interesting thing about it was that the real will for a peace agreement on our side came not when people were being killed but when it started to have a financial impact and the City was affected.

Quality post and the last paragraph is 100% spot on!!!!

Bossa Nova · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:51 am **Posts:** 376

If we only talked about Pools on this site it would be pretty repetitive - let's be honest we could probably just recycle the Wycombe thread for our next home game (i.e. turgid, dreary, passionless, shite etc etc).
History is littered with stories of men of war who became men of peace, some of them considered to be great heroes. It's all about perspective, that's all I will say.
In ten years time it would not surprise me to see a united Ireland and an independent Scotland, that may be a good thing or it may be not.

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER · **Joined:** Sat May 19, 2007 11:00 am **Posts:** 20758

Not been on the bunker for a few hours but had to look when everyone was coming up to me asking about it possibly shutting!

MutleyRules · **Posted:** Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:27 am

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER wrote:

Not been on the bunker for a few hours but had to look when everyone was coming up to me asking about it possibly shutting!

The amount of people who came up to me earlier asking if The Bunker....the No.1 Pools website....was closing....one!!!!

3Quid · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:11 pm **Posts:** 1791

Chip Fireball wrote:

Bossa Nova wrote:

If we only talked about Pools on this site it would be pretty repetitive - let's be honest we could probably just recycle the Wycombe thread for our next home game (i.e. turgid, dreary, passionless, shite etc etc).
History is littered with stories of men of war who became men of peace, some of them considered to be great heroes. It's all about perspective, that's all I will say.
In ten years time it would not surprise me to see a united Ireland and an independent Scotland, that may be a good thing or it may be not.

A lot of people have died fighting for a united Ireland, and a lot of people have died to stop that happening.

It would be the irony of ironies if it came about on the back of a Farage led campaign, but as I said on a thread the other week, it's very hard to see how you could have Northern Ireland out of the EU, and Southern Ireland in it without putting physical borders back in place.

For purely economic reasons you could see a mass movement of people from North to South.

But there's been borders before. Sort of. Anyway there will never be a united Ireland, certainly not while you've got nearly 1 million people or roughly 60% who class themselves as British and Northern Irish.

johnjo · **Joined:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:57 pm **Posts:** 321

An excellent post Chip ( I sincerely mean it) tell me when is the next volume out. I don't intend to go any further but I have enjoyed rattling a few cages but I believe people will be getting bored with this thread.
Like you say some people never change and I think that goes for you and me. You with your mining village background and me with my conservative upbringing. I would just like to add if you do not use your vote don't complain.
PS KEEP THE RED FLAG FLYING HIGH Chip

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37493

The tragedy of Ulster is two intransigent sides steeped in religious bigotry to a level we can't even begin to comprehend. The troubles were an inevitabilty given that one side held all the power which they held an iron grip on.
Nowadays it would be hard to comprehend the troubles breaking out over civil rights demanded by nationalists but it's now a more open informed society and it probably wouldn't have erupted into what it did.
The result was an opportunity for the IRA to lump in the demand for a united Ireland along with it and the rest is history. Trouble is, history in Ulster goes back a long way but resentments are as fresh as ever on a level we'd find hard to begin to comprehend.
McGuinness Was a product of history who tried to break the log jam. I don't mourn or celebrate his passing, It's a complex twisted path taken, but talking beats killing.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Bossa Nova wrote:

If we only talked about Pools on this site it would be pretty repetitive - let's be honest we could probably just recycle the Wycombe thread for our next home game (i.e. turgid, dreary, passionless, shite etc etc).
History is littered with stories of men of war who became men of peace, some of them considered to be great heroes. It's all about perspective, that's all I will say.
In ten years time it would not surprise me to see a united Ireland and an independent Scotland, that may be a good thing or it may be not.

Since when did some people actually believe that the bunker was there to talk about Pools? It never has been and thankgod, never will be. Pools is a side show,and always has been.

And I agree entirely with Bossa Nova.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

johnjo wrote:

An excellent post Chip ( I sincerely mean it) tell me when is the next volume out. I don't intend to go any further but I have enjoyed rattling a few cages but I believe people will be getting bored with this thread.
Like you say some people never change and I think that goes for you and me. You with your mining village background and me with my conservative upbringing. I would just like to add if you do not use your vote don't complain.
PS KEEP THE RED FLAG FLYING HIGH Chip

You really havent read a word chip wrote have you? Not one.

But hey, keep rattling them cages. :laugh:

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37493

The Colonel wrote:

Bossa Nova wrote:

If we only talked about Pools on this site it would be pretty repetitive - let's be honest we could probably just recycle the Wycombe thread for our next home game (i.e. turgid, dreary, passionless, shite etc etc).
History is littered with stories of men of war who became men of peace, some of them considered to be great heroes. It's all about perspective, that's all I will say.
In ten years time it would not surprise me to see a united Ireland and an independent Scotland, that may be a good thing or it may be not.

Since when did some people actually believe that the bunker was there to talk about Pools? It never has been and thankgod, never will be. Pools is a side show,and always has been.

And I agree entirely with Bossa Nova.

You couldn't agree with your reflection in a mirror :laugh:

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER · **Joined:** Sat May 19, 2007 11:00 am **Posts:** 20758

johnjo wrote:

Like you say some people never change and I think that goes for you and me. You with your mining village background

I only skim read this thread but I believe that is exactly the opposite of what Chip was saying.

Could be wrong like.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Snowy wrote:

You couldn't agree with your reflection in a mirror :laugh:

There is no relfection in my mirror. bbolt

born toulouse · **Posted:** Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:28 am

How do you feel about garlic and if you met this lovely lady would you find her neck or cleavage most appealing?

Attachment:

Ingrid pitt.jpg

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Errrrr Neck?

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

And Garlic? Urrgh

born toulouse · **Posted:** Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:17 am

Time for the pitchforks and flaming torches. Not because you're a vampire, its just high time you were dealt with.

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:43 am

See, I used to frequent this Irish pub in Paris where everyone was allegedly on the IRA payroll, and it's quite possible there were a few sympathisers, but I never once heard a word about The Troubles. The only reaction I ever saw was after the mortar attack on No. 10, which amounted to chuckles at having scared the shite out of the British cabinet.
I think most of the overseas operators didn't go round openly bragging about it, albeit for obvious reasons. Mind you there was this one guy, not in Paris but in Montpellier, who was clearly gutted when they announced the cease fire.
I think the time for polemic is over. If McGuinness orchestrated hundreds of civilian deaths then by definition was a murderous bastard. If he then went on the help the peace, I don't call that redemption; I call that the least he could fucking do. But that episode in history is over now.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

born toulouse wrote:

Time for the pitchforks and flaming torches. Not because you're a vampire, its just high time you were dealt with.

Harsh.

But be warned. You will need a silver bullet.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37493

Surely a dum-dum bullet.

tatty picker · **Joined:** Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:22 pm **Posts:** 36

Aye, what's in the bag mate, terrible times.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22670

There is no doubt that the people of NI were sick and tired of it all and the likes of McGuiness had lost the community. That is where their power base always was but they became to be seen for the money making gangsters they were rather than the freedom fighters they like to portray themselves as.

Frankly when he decided to change methods he had little choice

Malcolm Dawes Knew My Father · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2011 4:25 pm **Posts:** 4198

I've been following this thread and others while on a trip to Australia. Good that it's finally winding down, but I did ask ("Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:34 am
Martin McGuinness isn't looking too clever... wonder if anyone will fancy a ban for RIP-ing him?") so here's my 2p worth.

Countries that have been torn apart by civil conflict have to go through a period of national reconciliation (aka shaking hands with the enemy). It happened in Spain after Franco died and it happened in South Africa under President Mandela. McGuinness deserves credit for how he behaved after 1998 but no more or less than Ian Paisley. That said, the Good Friday Agreement was a screw up compared with the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission - immunity from prosecution should have been granted to all sides in the conflict, including the British Army. Nationalist victims of the Troubles don't have any more right to 'justice' than any others.

That said, I would much rather see peaceful Irish reunification in 2021 than the centenary of Partition.

horden · **Posted:** Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:31 am

Mr Irrelevant wrote:

There is no doubt that the people of NI were sick and tired of it all and the likes of McGuiness had lost the community. That is where their power base always was but they became to be seen for the money making gangsters they were rather than the freedom fighters they like to portray themselves as.

Frankly when he decided to change methods he had little choice

Martin McGuinness was a freedom fighter, not a terrorist or a money making gangster, you know that, but you don't like it, because you have another agenda, that of fighting for queen and country, regardless of whether it is right or wrong.

During the civil rights marches in 1969, McGuinness and the likes were asking for a peaceful solution to the situation, they were met with violence by the British government, it was then that the McGuinness and co, decided that if that was the way a call for peace was going to be met, the only way to achieve an outcome was for them to use violence.

It was this sustained violence, especially when it started to hit the British money men in the pockets ( Docklands bombing, 100 million pounds of damage ) that eventually got the British government to the table and talk about peace. McGuinness was a freedom fighter , had he been born in Hartlepool I doubt he would of killed anyone, likewise if a Hartlepool catholic had been born in the Belfast bogside they could of become a freedom fighter, that is the difference between a freedom fighter and a murderer, they aren't unhinged or born a murderer, they grow into it, because of the challenges life has dealt them. Most people choose to just struggle along, others choose to do something about it.

Martin McGuiness

Gadgies online