The is it / isn't it a loan agreement.

Optimistic · **Joined:** Sun May 31, 2009 4:07 pm **Posts:** 1065

Loughlin's tweet

Looks like there's an answer for the detectives out there who discovered Pools have taken out finance. It's for the Mill House Masterplan

Optimistic · **Joined:** Sun May 31, 2009 4:07 pm **Posts:** 1065

https://t.co/aswht9h3Fx

Zippy · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:37 am **Posts:** 265

Optimistic wrote:

Loughlin's tweet

Looks like there's an answer for the detectives out there who discovered Pools have taken out finance. It's for the Mill House Masterplan

Just wait and see, you can only piss up someone's back and tell them it's raining once or twice, after that if it smells like piss, it usually is!

yloop · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:51 pm

So using a secured loan to buy the ground... can see that getting past the ACV!

Aberdeen Pools · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:53 pm

It doesn't say it's for buying the ground. It says the land around it. The ACV covers the ground only I believe (happy to stand corrected). Not that it matters anyway.

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yloop · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:56 pm

Just with them using the Mill House Masterplan wording, that was to buy the ground as well.

If it's not then fair enough, just don't quite like the idea that a loan secured on HUFC is going on this. One month we're rumoured to be struggling to pay wages, the next month we're looking at blasting millions. I genuinely think the new ownership team needs to learn to walk before they can run.

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER · **Joined:** Sat May 19, 2007 11:00 am **Posts:** 20758

We are we using the equivalent of Wonga for this loan?

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

The millhouse master plan?

Really?

I mean really, really?

I smell something. And its not pleasant.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

If this is true:

We have owners without a pot to piss in.

Who are borrowing an unwholly amount of cash for a non football related project......at the same time players are paid late.

But the loan is in the name of HUFC and not the owners.

So if it goes tits up HUFC are left with the debt that they cant pay.

Whilst the owners swan off scot free.

But will the masterplan be in the name of HUFC or will thay part be listed as someone or something else?

Pools get the debt but not the infrastructure built with the money.

Am I missing something?

Aberdeen Pools · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:42 pm

How much is the unwholly amount being borrowed?

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The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

No idea. But it wont be the equivalent of a £300 pay day loan.

thetownendfaithful · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:47 pm

Wonder what the reaction would be if IOR done this (not condoning IOR btw) but ffs is Coxall determined to make us go pop, what is the logic behind this

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

I wonder if the loan is for just over £100k. Just slightly over.

TalbotAvenger · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:57 pm

thetownendfaithful wrote:

Wonder what the reaction would be if IOR done this (not condoning IOR btw) but ffs is Coxall determined to make us go pop, what is the logic behind this

IOR, the bounders, never tweeted once, nor did Uncle Ken, Gasher does and he's well cool, innit?

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER · **Joined:** Sat May 19, 2007 11:00 am **Posts:** 20758

The Colonel wrote:

If this is true:

We have owners without a pot to piss in.

Who are borrowing an unwholly amount of cash for a non football related project......at the same time players are paid late.

But the loan is in the name of HUFC and not the owners.

So if it goes tits up HUFC are left with the debt that they cant pay.

Whilst the owners swan off scot free.

But will the masterplan be in the name of HUFC or will thay part be listed as someone or something else?

Pools get the debt but not the infrastructure built with the money.

Am I missing something?

Hopefully we have a journalist who can ask these questions and not have to run their stories passed the club before publishing.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22671

It's all a bit vague innit. Finance to 'bid' on the 'proposed' masterplan. Hardly cast iron is it?

yloop · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:01 pm

It will cost millions to build anything there. £5m was the total being banded about a few years back, take away the housing and leave it as a hotel etc. and you're still looking at £2.5m plus easily.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

It will be a cheap shitty hotel if it only costs £2.5m.

Wasnt the £5m acgually the shortfall?

Compo · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:03 pm

Anyone who thinks the master plan will happen has a head full of square wheels and teacakes

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22671

I heard that the Monaco government were really worried about losing income to Belk Street.

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER · **Joined:** Sat May 19, 2007 11:00 am **Posts:** 20758

Things seem to be getting more and more worrying day by day.

Mute Witness · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:10 am **Posts:** 3572

Call me cynical but often a Company will take out a loan to pay off debts, especially if it's had winding up petitions against them.

Basically getting in debt to pay off a debt, it's a vicious circle.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22671

Lets hope that the taxman is paid up to date now.

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

Ah well, Nick Loughlin got his pop in at 'the detectives' who actually did something akin to investigative journalism. He should try it sometime.

Mute Witness · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:10 am **Posts:** 3572

pooliecrab wrote:

Ah well, Nick Mark Simpson's Tea Boy got his pop in at 'the detectives' who actually did something akin to investigative journalism. He should try it sometime.

We need people to do investigative journalism because my hunch is this is only the beginning. Two winding up petitions, a loan taken out with a Finance Company - sounds a bit desperate to me.

poolieboydave · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:50 pm

The explanation on Twitter doesn't really work for me. Usually you'd only sign the loan for the infrastructure once everything was fully developed and ready to put a spade in the ground, which feels quite far away for this scheme.

Maybe they mean that it's a loan to fund the actual development work (ie secure planning, ground condition surveys, legal costs etc.) but I still worry there is something missing in the Echo's explanation.

Will all come out in the wash!

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

They don't have any particular plans in place with the council. I doubt they'd have wanted to announce they got this loan at all never mind so soon. If they don't start talking with the council soon we'll all be drawing our own conclusions.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22671

Mute Witness wrote:

[Two winding up petitions

And counting........

Bluebones · **Joined:** Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:11 pm **Posts:** 170

The Colonel wrote:

If this is true:

We have owners without a pot to piss in.They have never said they had

Who are borrowing an unwholly amount of cash for a non football related project..That is very probably football related if it secures future income for the football club as part investors

....at the same time players are paid late. Has ANYONE actually got any proof of this ?

But the loan is in the name of HUFC and not the owners. And any future income from the develpoment is therefore in the name of HUFC and not the owners

So if it goes tits up HUFC are left with the debt that they cant pay. Maybe they've only secured the funds to try and push on with the development and if it doesn't go ahead they'll just pay the loan back without actually spending much of it ?

Whilst the owners swan off scot free. Or if and when they do, maybe , just maybe they might have left us a money making legasy for years to come

But will the masterplan be in the name of HUFC or will thay part be listed as someone or something else? why not wait for the actual factual details from the club (and maybe other investors/developers)

Pools get the debt but not the infrastructure built with the money. why not wait for the actual factual details from the club (and maybe other investors/developers)

Am I missing something? Or are you just being as negative as you can without even knowing the full story

Mute Witness · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:10 am **Posts:** 3572

Bluebones wrote:

The Colonel wrote:

If this is true:

We have owners without a pot to piss in.They have never said they had

Who are borrowing an unwholly amount of cash for a non football related project..That is very probably football related if it secures future income for the football club as part investors

....at the same time players are paid late. Has ANYONE actually got any proof of this ?

But the loan is in the name of HUFC and not the owners. And any future income from the develpoment is therefore in the name of HUFC and not the owners

So if it goes tits up HUFC are left with the debt that they cant pay. Maybe they've only secured the funds to try and push on with the development and if it doesn't go ahead they'll just pay the loan back without actually spending much of it ?

Whilst the owners swan off scot free. Or if and when they do, maybe , just maybe they might have left us a money making legasy for years to come

But will the masterplan be in the name of HUFC or will thay part be listed as someone or something else? why not wait for the actual factual details from the club (and maybe other investors/developers)

Pools get the debt but not the infrastructure built with the money. why not wait for the actual factual details from the club (and maybe other investors/developers)

Am I missing something? Or are you just being as negative as you can without even knowing the full story

Colonel is right to be concerned.

We've had TWO winding up petitions (that we know - whose to say we haven't had more?), we have been struggling to pay the taxman.

We have a manager who is looking to sell players.

We've taken out a loan.

Company's struggling for money (two winding up petitions says we are) often take out finance loans.

Even the most optimistic person must see it's surely a bit worrying? What would you get worrying?

What would worry you? Selling players to pay off debts? Another loan? Another winding up petition? Going into admin? At what point do you not get worried?

Bluebones · **Joined:** Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:11 pm **Posts:** 170

Mute Witness wrote:

Bluebones wrote:

The Colonel wrote:

If this is true:

We have owners without a pot to piss in.They have never said they had

Who are borrowing an unwholly amount of cash for a non football related project..That is very probably football related if it secures future income for the football club as part investors

....at the same time players are paid late. Has ANYONE actually got any proof of this ?

But the loan is in the name of HUFC and not the owners. And any future income from the develpoment is therefore in the name of HUFC and not the owners

So if it goes tits up HUFC are left with the debt that they cant pay. Maybe they've only secured the funds to try and push on with the development and if it doesn't go ahead they'll just pay the loan back without actually spending much of it ?

Whilst the owners swan off scot free. Or if and when they do, maybe , just maybe they might have left us a money making legasy for years to come

But will the masterplan be in the name of HUFC or will thay part be listed as someone or something else? why not wait for the actual factual details from the club (and maybe other investors/developers)

Pools get the debt but not the infrastructure built with the money. why not wait for the actual factual details from the club (and maybe other investors/developers)

Am I missing something? Or are you just being as negative as you can without even knowing the full story

Colonel is right to be concerned. Is he, is he really or is he the single most negative poster in the world, he hasn't got a good word to say about Xmas never mind Pools

We've had TWO winding up petitions (that we know - whose to say we haven't had more?), we have been struggling to pay the taxman. Both have been explained

We have a manager who is looking to sell players. Maybe in order to bring more in or just trying to stick to a small current budget set by a careful chairman

We've taken out a loan. to hopefully secure investment in a develpoment that could actually benefit the club in the long term

Company's struggling for money (two winding up petitions says we are) often take out finance loans. Yep sometimes they do, i've done it myself before to make sure i could continue my business, Mr C hasn't said we've got loads of money but it seems he needs some to get extra investmen and possibly other investors interested, might be a case of others being interested but they might have said something as simple sa '' show US your money and we'll show you ours

Even the most optimistic person must see it's surely a bit worrying? What would you get worrying? Dropping into the bottom two

What would worry you? Selling players to pay off debts? Another loan? Another winding up petition? Going into admin? At what point do you not get worried? Administration would as well, but there's yet to be any mention of that has there ?

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

Bluebones, what connection do you have to the club/Northern Echo?

It's almost as if fetishbob has learned to use grammar.

loan_star · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:13 pm

Theres always someone who cant see the wood for the trees. As a fan of a club that has been screwed over more than once by "good intentioned" owners I can say you do right to question everything and don't take the bluebones approach of making excuses for unusual transactions taken out in the name of HUFC.

ElvisC · **Joined:** Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:55 am **Posts:** 4504

loan_star wrote:

Theres always someone who cant see the wood for the trees. As a fan of a club that has been screwed over more than once by "good intentioned" owners I can say you do right to question everything and don't take the bluebones approach of making excuses for unusual transactions taken out in the name of HUFC.

Here, here Dave.

Bluebones · **Joined:** Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:11 pm **Posts:** 170

pooliecrab wrote:

Bluebones, what connection do you have to the club/Northern Echo?

It's almost as if fetishbob has learned to use grammar.

None other than being a fan, just trying to look on the other side of the coin instead of only seeing negatives like the fake Colonel. A few months ago i was talking to the chairman who i bumped into on a night out but i was reasonably inebriated and he'd had a few too, he outlined his long term vision of sustaining Pools whether JPNG were there or not in the future, at the time i didn't really think much of it although it sounded great, this was way back around the end of September but i'd never really thought much about it until now.

Mr Irrelevant · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:25 pm **Posts:** 22671

I don't think anyone doubts the good intentions (good for Gary Coxall that is) but I'd like to see more mundane stuff being processed correctly and without drama before we start talking about an Arena..... hmmm.... I'm sure I've heard that word somewhere before.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

So bluebones you have been on the piss at the sane time as the chairman and he told you all about his grand plans.

Thats worse than fucking twitter.
I highlighted potential concerns and you get personal. Whys that then?

Try to be civil. I might not be a colonel but you definitely havnt got blue bones.so who's fake?

Most fans are concerned. Period.

Bluebones · **Joined:** Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:11 pm **Posts:** 170

The Colonel wrote:

So bluebones you have been on the piss at the sane time as the chairman and he told you all about his grand plans.Yep, as i said, didn't really think much of it at the time

Thats worse than fucking twitter. Not really otherwise i'd have been spouting off about it at the time when all i had to go on was a drunken conversation and no real facts unlike some of the rumour mongers that do it based on next to nothing
I highlighted potential concerns and you get personal. Whys that then? Truthfully, i got personal because i don't really like your forum personality, simple as that really, you probably don't like mine but i couldn't really care less

Try to be civil. I might not be a colonel but you definitely havnt got blue bones.so who's fake? doesn't really warrant an answer, other than this

Most fans are concerned. Period.Don't really disagree although you have to realise that this and other forums aren't really a big a representative of the fans of HUFC as you might think, so maybe most is a strong word, maybe should have said, a lot seem to be concerned instead

I hope i haven't upset you or offended you too much by disagreeing with your opinion.

Brian Honour's Left Foot · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:54 pm

Chip Fireball wrote:

I remember wasting a good hour an a half of my life at The Vic the last time the Millhouse Masterplan was discussed. Listened to a load of horseshit from Russ Green and some bloke from Robinsons. Loads of great artistic impressions of what it was all going to look like. Loads of talk of hotels and shops and flats.

It was a very well prepared presentation, no doubt a tidy chunk had been handed over to architects and planners and consultants and what have you to pull it all together.

Problem was that there was a 5 million quid hole in the finances. It was just pie in the sky garbage, the sort we see every six months or so on the front page of the Hartlepool Mail, the latest fancy dan bollocks which will never amount to anything.

So Gary Coxhall, who as far as I am aware has no track record in property development, has used the football club as collateral for a loan with a finance company that it would appear has only existed for a year, and which charges loan shark interest rates. We don't know what he has borrowed it for but it certainly wouldn't be to finance a multi, multi, million pound piece of major re-development work .

And frankly anyone who thinks that is possible, is so dense light would probably bend around them.

I'm just about willing to believe he has borrowed money to finance more of the sort of bollocks we saw last time around, but hotels, shops, flats ? Where the swimming baths are and round the back of the Vic ? The council have struggled to find a buyer for Jacksons Landing, and that's in a decent location. Who in their right mind is going to pay top dollar to stay in a hotel opposite The Odeon or round the back of Morrisons ?

If that's his plan to protect the future of the football club God help us.

I spent ten minutes on the Companies House website yesterday and got worried and annoyed by the background to the finance company, its directors and their other interests - then I saw today's Mail - FFS - bring back IOR............

monkeybutt · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:00 am

Chip Fireball wrote:

I remember wasting a good hour an a half of my life at The Vic the last time the Millhouse Masterplan was discussed. Listened to a load of horseshit from Russ Green and some bloke from Robinsons. Loads of great artistic impressions of what it was all going to look like. Loads of talk of hotels and shops and flats.

It was a very well prepared presentation, no doubt a tidy chunk had been handed over to architects and planners and consultants and what have you to pull it all together.

Problem was that there was a 5 million quid hole in the finances. It was just pie in the sky garbage, the sort we see every six months or so on the front page of the Hartlepool Mail, the latest fancy dan bollocks which will never amount to anything.

So Gary Coxhall, who as far as I am aware has no track record in property development, has used the football club as collateral for a loan with a finance company that it would appear has only existed for a year, and which charges loan shark interest rates. We don't know what he has borrowed it for but it certainly wouldn't be to finance a multi, multi, million pound piece of major re-development work .

And frankly anyone who thinks that is possible, is so dense light would probably bend around them.

I'm just about willing to believe he has borrowed money to finance more of the sort of bollocks we saw last time around, but hotels, shops, flats ? Where the swimming baths are and round the back of the Vic ? The council have struggled to find a buyer for Jacksons Landing, and that's in a decent location. Who in their right mind is going to pay top dollar to stay in a hotel opposite The Odeon or round the back of Morrisons ?

If that's his plan to protect the future of the football club God help us.

It`s going to be a hotel for muslims, it will be facing Mecca bbolt

monkeybutt · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:03 am

There is some serious brown nosing going on with Twitter and Gary Coxhall, I would wait until something concrete comes out before sending plaudits, all seems a little premature.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37618

Bluebones wrote:

pooliecrab wrote:

Bluebones, what connection do you have to the club/Northern Echo?

It's almost as if fetishbob has learned to use grammar.

None other than being a fan, just trying to look on the other side of the coin instead of only seeing negatives like the fake Colonel. A few months ago i was talking to the chairman who i bumped into on a night out but i was reasonably inebriated and he'd had a few too, he outlined his long term vision of sustaining Pools whether JPNG were there or not in the future, at the time i didn't really think much of it although it sounded great, this was way back around the end of September but i'd never really thought much about it until now.

I'd be amazed if he'd said anything else.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37618

Mr Irrelevant wrote:

I heard that the Monaco government were really worried about losing income to Belk Street.

To be renamed Evelyn Harrison Boulevard.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Bluebones wrote:

The Colonel wrote:

So bluebones you have been on the piss at the sane time as the chairman and he told you all about his grand plans.Yep, as i said, didn't really think much of it at the time

Thats worse than fucking twitter. Not really otherwise i'd have been spouting off about it at the time when all i had to go on was a drunken conversation and no real facts unlike some of the rumour mongers that do it based on next to nothing
I highlighted potential concerns and you get personal. Whys that then? Truthfully, i got personal because i don't really like your forum personality, simple as that really, you probably don't like mine but i couldn't really care less

Try to be civil. I might not be a colonel but you definitely havnt got blue bones.so who's fake? doesn't really warrant an answer, other than this

Most fans are concerned. Period.Don't really disagree although you have to realise that this and other forums aren't really a big a representative of the fans of HUFC as you might think, so maybe most is a strong word, maybe should have said, a lot seem to be concerned instead

I hope i haven't upset you or offended you too much by disagreeing with your opinion.

Offended? And I thought you must have known me.

I dont like or dislike anyone for their internet persona. Unlike you obviously.

Nor does my love and loyalty to pools/chairman trump all. Unlike you.

But out of interest there are a good number of people far more ariculate than me making the same points. But you havent answered them yet.

Get on with it then.

Joe Mac · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:21 am

monkeybutt wrote:

There is some serious brown nosing going on with Twitter and Gary Coxhall, I would wait until something concrete comes out before sending plaudits, all seems a little premature.

It's pathetic that sort of shite, the club could announce plans to run over 300 puppies with a steam roller and Coxall would still get people on twitter licking his arse hole. Not forgetting the Echo running it as a story with it being great for the town etc..

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

They're not questions for bluebones to answer, although he seems to think he's qualified to do so.

I think the original plans were for a hotel and student accommodation. Students who go to college stay at home usually and who the feck would holiday in Hartlepool??

But from the article it seems like the headline is misleading and its a completely different plan for the same site. Housing and retail are mentioned and while I understand housing development can be lucrative I really don't see any benefit to more retail outlets when a large percentage of existing ones are derelict.
Gary Coxall may or may not have history in construction other than recruiting in that sector but that's irrelevant, remember the deal with Senecca homes or Wynyard homes or whatever they're called now? I doubt anyone would be surprised to see them get any housing development deal if it did happen but that's a long way down the line.

We're struggling to pay tax bills now though so why we're being told that we'll be saved years from now when the area around the ground is done up is worrying.

Joe Mac · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:30 am

A hotel in that area wouldn't make sense, within a mile radius of the club you have the travelodge, premier Inn and the grand hotel. It's very poor timing to start talking about this plan especially as on the field hasn't been great and the winding up or errs of the field, we are looking at spunking our wonga loan on something like this. Just doesn't make any sense.

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER · **Joined:** Sat May 19, 2007 11:00 am **Posts:** 20758

Mr Irrelevant wrote:

Lets hope that the taxman is paid up to date now.

All sorted aint it??

born toulouse · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:25 am

Couple of simple questions for you Bluebones:

If the club are in anything approaching decent financial shape why would they borrow at high rates from a dodgy firm that appears to be run by a single shareholder on behalf of a bloke who is banned from running businesses?

When you borrowed for your business was it a sensible rate from a reputable lender or did you just take what you could get at any rate from whoever would lend it?

kevin pooles gloves · **Joined:** Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:28 pm **Posts:** 9665

A rich arab from the dubia office of :text-feedback:

recruitment.

The is it / isn't it a loan agreement.

Gadgies online