In other news I heard Stalin was a really nice bloke.. Look they're all as corrupt as each other and that idiot Putin thinks he's Peter the Great.. Mr Horden .. the problem is that this communist (socialist) utopia will never be due to humans being naturally greedy bastads..

The people on the flight probably got suicidal when Daley was mincing up and down the plane telling everyone how proud he was that he had come out.

All 300 were probably going to jump.

not as much as my driving though.

Harsh.

Especially as I saw your face on here a while back.

You must have found me attractive to keep looking and looking and looking.

Lets leave it there.

You go back to judging everyone.

And I will stand still and look handsome.

When have any of them run The Guardian, or The Independent, or the BBC for that matter ?

It's the scran in China that puts me off....anything that walks, crawls, slithers, flys, hops and stands still!!!!

It's the scran in China that puts me off....anything that walks, crawls, slithers, flys, hops and stands still!!!!

sounds fucking good to me.

when has there ever been a perfect world?

or a perfect britain?

before we had capitalists we had the class system.

The working class.....all paid a pittance, had to doff their caps to the gentry.

Is that the world you crave?

At least in a capitalist system, working class people can make a decent living, and set up businesses to employ other working class people on decent wages

And working class people can become rich.

SO all the wealth doesnt have to stay with upper class toffs.

If the working class in history really wanted to do anything, they would have marched on London and murdered all the toffs.

And got rid of the class system.

The Indy is owned by Alexandr Lebedev, the BBC has been governed by our Jewish friends for a good few years now, who are also represented on the board of the Scott Trust.

I don't dispute your 'gates open' theory by any means but over the years I've seen a lot of Chinese people who've made the leap and then come back disappointed after a year or two, after they've given it a go in both the UK or States.

I really know nothing about life in Russia, but I never fancied it although I do know a gadgie from Manchester who has made a decent business there over about ten years. It's the scran that puts me off.

Norway and Sweden are usually top of the Democracy Index every time its done. Switzerland and Finland usually up there an all.

The UK has slipped slightly of late, think it used to be tenth, but has dropped a notch or two.

China still outside the top 100 last time I looked, but it would appear as long as you got coin and are a bit anti-Semitic they will take you in.

Of course it would be. No-one needs telling that it's not a democratic society. You know how many people care? Very, very few.

Last I heard, more and more people were living below the poverty line in the UK while less and less were in China. So which system works for the populace?

Both policies have been rescinded in the last year. The one child policy was an unqualified success hence the reason that it's now the second most succesful economy on earth.

When are you going to mention Tainanmen? That's usually the last gasp of someone who can't hold up his end of a discussion on China.

Norway and Sweden are relatively small countries you have to remember, so implementing what they do on a large scale produces it's own challenges, they are also relatively uniform from a culture and immigration perspective

Aren't you supposed to get the option of 2 years paternity leave in Sweden, or is that a load of bollocks I heard? Seem to remember some TV programme a while ago waxing lyrical about it.

Not sure how the population size matters to be honest, its surely a question of percentages ?

Obviously a section of the indigenous Swedish population will be unhappy about large scale immigration, and as I said it maybe isn't the shining beacon of successful integration it was once held up to be, but considering the relatively huge numbers they have taken in and where they have taken them from, its amazing there hasn't been the more widespread support for Far Right Parties there has been in the rest of Europe.

If you can be arsed to read it there's a lot more info here :

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/ ... 2013-riots

Triple man, can't you just look on the bright side for once instead of looking for negatives?

You remind me of a bloke I had the misfortune to be sat next to when we won 3-0 at Oldham. I think we were *only* 2-0 up at the time, and we put together a great passing move and shot which the Oldham keeper only just managed to turn round the post for a corner. Several hundred Poolies applauded the effort, and this character turned to me balefully, sorrowful eyes wide, asking "but why can't we do this at home?"

If you don't think you're being negative then there's little point in trying to explain, but here goes anyway: the thread was full of posts saying how bad different societies/nation states are/where, and then some posts saying that the Scandanavians may be onto something and perhaps we can learn from them.

You then state that the Scandanavian countries are smaller and aren't multicultural, both of which aren't true, which leads me to think you're just looking for holes in a positive argument.

It's not like you don't have form for looking on the dark side either, but you do hold your hands up when you're wrong.

It's a similar argument used for a long time by the right wing media, The Daily Express being a classic example.

Obviously the notion of a progressive, democratic, inclusive society, with a generous welfare state, taking in way above average numbers of the worlds most disadvantaged refugees, and not imploding or sinking under the weight of scroungers is their worst nightmare.

So any time there is any unrest that might possibly be along ethnic grounds in Sweden it gets blown out of all proportion.

As stated, there's one town in Sweden, one town, a town with a smaller population than Hartlepool, taken in more Iraqi refugees in the last decade than the whole of the USA and Canada combined. Sort of puts things into perspective really.

This argument that its got a tiny population so doesn't really count is laughable. But as decker lives in the USA he is probably familiar with the inscription at the foot of The Statue of Liberty. The big difference being that the Yanks " talk the talk " whereas the Swedes actually " walk the walk "

Another plane gone missing I see.

From what I can gather round here it disappeared over North Mali which is pretty unstable area but there were also suggestions that a collision might have happened. Couple of French jets are looking for it.

Two, sadly. What the fuck is going on?

Not comforting to a bloke who is flying next Wednesday.