The trouble is that these 'explanations' were meant to account for the mystery of how existence came about, but turn out to make things more problematic than ever.
The 'God solution' becomes self -contradictory, at least as most people pose it, because God is supposed to have created everything from nothing. But nothingness implies no-God, as well as no-everything else. So this 'explanation' entails both that God did and didn't exist at the same time. Surely this isn't an answer, but just another way of posing the original question?
As for the scientific 'answer' Albatross mentions....aren't cause and effect axiomatic concepts in human knowledge/understanding? If you postulate a state of affairs, pre-big bang, when time and causation didn't exist, this can strictly speaking make no sense to human beings. What could it possibly mean? It's outside our experience/rationality and therefore doesn't make sense (I think)

There is no god. None residing within 30,000 miles of Bescot anyway.

And if there is then he is a bleeding tool

This whole thread has taken me about half an hour to skim through, and this quote picked from one of the attachments makes the most sense to me.

"Finally, if this God is a fair and just God, surely he will judge people on their actions in life, not on whether they happen to believe in him. A God who sends good and kind people to hell is not one most atheists would be prepared to consider worshipping."

I don't take part in any formal religion, although the rest of my immediate family do. I have always felt that as long as I attempt to be a 'good' rather than 'bad' person, I am fulfilling my small part in this existence called life. That and producing 3 sons to keep the Poolie support going.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see what form this thread would have taken if it had been started on HUFC 2005?

you still ducked the questions and not given me a satisfactory answer
my point was if you dont believe in the church then why be an hypocrite and use them for weddings , christening,s and funerals

I wonder if those people managed to climb aboard Halle Bop after they terminated their own existence on this planet?? stupid

Pragmatist?

Simply because of tradition and ceremony. Nobody is arguing that the church doesn't put on a good show for events like weddings, funerals and christenings. Most people stand there and mumble the prayers whilst not believing a word of it. It's part of the show you see.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone gets married in church is automatically a card carrying devout Christian - they ain't, its simply that these events work better with the pomp of a church service.

Hypocritical? Naw.

I think you're correct BP - are we related?
being a Christian means to be Christ-like, and there aint nowt wrong with that! surely if everyone at least tried to be a better person then the world would be a better place to live in!

I try, but fall down sooooo many times..... , and I am a huge hypocrite to boot - in fact so much so that I hate myself. cool eh?!

nope, but it'd help!

I agree, the church is full of hypocritical cock-ends, and I too want no part of it......

I thought the churches were all empty...unless of course there is a heathen wedding,christining or funeral going on.....

when I say 'churches' i generally refer to the hiarchy

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This quote from Francis Crick- Nobel Prize Winning Scientist who mapped the human DNA code is very interesting-


‘An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going.’3

Crick reasoned that life could not have evolved from non-living chemicals under any conceivable earth conditions. But the idea of a creator was unacceptable, since it would go against his atheistic faith. He affirmed this when he said, ‘People like myself get along perfectly well with no religious views.’1"

The overwhelming evidence of design within the DNA code led one of the pre-eminent scientints of the 20th century to admit that life could not have evolved from non-living matter..........but still the idea of a "God" was completely refuted by him instead attributing the massive evidence of design to ALIENS. Now is this reasonable? scientific? Or is it not WANTING to believe in a Creator no matter what the evidence suggests.
_________________

The truth is amongst is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity#Etymology

it's the worship things that gets me

your time would be better spent helping other people and yourself, rather than worshiping and preying to someone/thing that you don't know exists, and has never made an attempt to communicate back.

Ah, Lombroso!

Atavist!

What that the bloke who reckoned that your personality traits were etched in your forehead?

Of a fashion.

I agree. There are a couple of dodgy sounding American 'students' in our area, who've set up a Christian group for teenagers one evening a week.
This pair have the kids 'discussing' theological issues and saying prayers....and the prayers are about such things as 'asking God to help me pass my exams'. Not helping prevent war or provide food for the starving, mark, but personal gain.
I didn't want to tell my daughter point blank that she couldn't go to these meetings, but it was a great weight off my mind when she decided for herself to stay away

who beats you?
why do you allow them to do it....

why not get help.....self assertive classes maybe.......

or a big brick ...

If I recall correctly, Lombroso believed that mental traits could be associated with physical features, and devoted considerable resources to trying to prove his theory. So for example he would take cranial measurements of the skulls of criminals and non-criminals, looking for some sort of correlation which meant you would eventually be able to predict someone's personality by knowing the shape and size of certain parts of their body. If anyone's read Terry Pratchett's novel "Night Watch", Captain Swing uses exactly this sort of system to decide if someone is a criminal or not.

Lombroso was discredited a long time ago - he was discovered to be untrustworthy because his eyes were too close together

Who's to say 'God' is a nice 'God'...?

It's all a huge con anyway ...... a bit like an insurance policy on the unproven.......

i had a word today about you
and she is on the war path

Yes, the whole thing worried me a lot. She went in the first place because some of her friends went along, and it was somewhere to meet up with them. But another aspect (why she was temporarily hooked) is the sheer amount of stress generated by schooling these days, which puts kids under terrible pressure and makes them look in strange places for relief.

Just another thing that keeps me awake at 4am and which I feel I can do nothing about.....

Howay man what kind of argument is that. I thought it was religious people who were supposed to be dogmatic.
I'm not going to philosophise or theologise (i think you did make them words up) but try and base an argument based on facts.

1.Darwin wrote this in the Origin of the Species "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, succesive, slight modifications, my theory would absoloutely break down" with that in mind.....
2.The very basis of life the human cell is an infinitely complex system of INTERACTING parts-which basically means each living cell can only have ever existed as a whole-complete.
3.This has led some of the greatest scientific minds of the 20th century to admit that the very beginning of human life the cell could not possibly have come about by Darwinnian evolutionary theory. (eg Crick, Hoyle,Behe)

Now I'm not so arrogant to say -look that means there is definitely a God..but I object to this idea that if I am not an Atheist then I am stoopid.
There is arguments for both sides.
Man but i'm a boring git.

There was a programme on TV a few months ago, presenting a debate between creationists and evolutionists. The feeling we had at the end was that neither side could possibly be correct....enormous holes in both arguments!

Always guarenteed to bring on a heated debate

You saw it too?!

When I was a regular fit runner, rather than the unfit slob I am now, I always felt a 10 mile run on a Sunday morning was a much more productive use of my time, rather than attending a pointless prayer and song session at the local church. Surely my keeping my body in a healthy condition was my way of thanking 'God' for his wonderful creation.

snap - and the bastids think that double yellows dont apply to them and their children should never ever fookin ever walk to school

Except the holes in evolutionary theory have been closing fast over the last 300 years (and even faster in the last 30) as more and more rational science explains more and more of what was the perserve of mystic meg and the other nutters. Special thanks to Crick and Watson, DNA, human genome etc

The gaping holes in all religions, but especially orthodox, constrained and narrow-minded ones continue to flap hopelessly in the wind.

That's just a bit of a sweeping generalisation isn't it?

maybe that is why you are wearing a cat these days