Well labour have gone into an early lead

KeithNobbsBigToe · **Joined:** Wed May 01, 2013 11:32 pm **Posts:** 1057

Love it chip.

Apparently labour are targeting the top 5% in tax increases. That must mean a fair few on the message board are in the top 5%... or they really have missed the point of politics and democracy.

Mumtaz's rucksack · **Joined:** Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:38 pm **Posts:** 1643

horden wrote:

You have a job, but you don't always have job security. You have your own home but you worry about paying the mortgage.
"You can just about manage, but you worry about the cost of living and getting your kids into a good school.
"If you are one of those families, if you're just managing, I want to address you directly. I know you are working around the clock, I know you're doing your best and I know that sometimes life can be a struggle.
"The Government I lead will be driven, not by the interests of the privileged few but by yours. We will do everything we can to give you more control over your lives."

A COUNTRY THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE - MY ARSE !

MORE WARS
NO NHS
MORE AUSTERITY

That's what you will get if you vote Tory on June 8th

This

Mumtaz's rucksack · **Joined:** Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:38 pm **Posts:** 1643

KeithNobbsBigToe wrote:

Love it chip.

Apparently labour are targeting the top 5% in tax increases. That must mean a fair few on the message board are in the top 5%... or they really have missed the point of politics and democracy.

And this

horden · **Posted:** Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:07 pm

If May can't debate , how can she negotiate ?

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

I believe the true tory leaders, and we know they exist, in secret, have forced May to keep out of the way as they realise she is damaged goods and is damaging their chance of complete control.

David Davies on Question time just now gave worst defence of her non appearance possible.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

poolie wrote:

What great outlook you have of your Country if i were you i would up sticks and @uck off to North Korea

Now I am quite happy to get into an arguement with you, if you wish, but we would be told to get a room. And with your potty mouth that just wouldnt do.

What I do like about the UK is our freedoms and freedom of speech. But you appear to want to remove that right.

I think maybe its you that shoul go to North Korea.

horden · **Posted:** Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:30 pm

The Colonel wrote:

I believe the true tory leaders, and we know they exist, in secret, have forced May to keep out of the way as they realise she is damaged goods and is damaging their chance of complete control.

David Davies on Question time just now gave worst defence of her non appearance possible.

I saw that as well. Had to laugh when he said May had managed to negotiate 100 out of 130 things that were in the British interest, imagine when he said British interests he was referring to the interests of people like May and himself, multi millionaires, not ordinary people.

I think she is a dead woman walking and even if she wins the election, won't be around for long after it. If Corbyn comes close it will go down as a psychological victory for Labour, lets hope it doesn't come to that though.

Only Pools could blow a lead like she had, the equivalent of a football team winning 6-0 at half time, and Labour have just pulled a 5th goal back in the 80th minute. She is a walking disaster, even George Osborne agrees.

offshorepoolie · **Joined:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:32 pm **Posts:** 6011

Just to remind everyone liars need to have good memories. .

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 07850.html

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horden · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:12 am

Wars make money for rich people, whilst the poor people fight them , and lose Fathers, Sons and Daughters in due course.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/ ... .politics1

kevin pooles gloves · **Joined:** Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:28 pm **Posts:** 9700

Not realy into politics but got told off an old gentleman that Enoch Powell had the rite idea!

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:37 am

What idea was that? Pissing off to Northern Ireland or telling people to vote Labour?

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

The opening lyrics of this Clash song from 1981 are more relevant now than ever:

They say the immigrants steal the hubcaps
Of respected gentlemen
They say it would be wine an' roses
If England were for Englishmen again

horden · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:27 am

The Colonel wrote:

The opening lyrics of this Clash song from 1981 are more relevant now than ever:

They say the immigrants steal the hubcaps
Of respected gentlemen
They say it would be wine an' roses
If England were for Englishmen again

Indeed !

Well I saw a dirty overcoat At the foot of the pillar of the road Propped inside was an old man Whom time would not erode When the night was snapped...

Apparently the latest poll, puts Corbyn now ahead in London, only another poll, but if true, is significant. .

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

If the tories arent panicking yet, they must be in a coma.

Wouldnt surprise me if they removed Maggie May before the election.

Nothing would surprise me any more.

horden · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:44 am

The Colonel wrote:

If the tories arent panicking yet, they must be in a coma.

Wouldnt surprise me if they removed Maggie May before the election.

Nothing would surprise me any more.

Be surprised if she makes it to the election, looks on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Normally I would have some sympathy, but she was one giving it large 6 months ago, belittling Corbyn in the commons, saying his politics were chaotic
( based on what exactly ?) talking over him, laughing at him while he attempted to speak, calling him weak and an old man.

Well who looks old now , Nora Batty, Sister of Dracula. It really is a case of what goes around comes around.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw

horden · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:09 pm

Advice to voters: if you want to be blown to smithereens and have your town turned into a flaming ruin in a nuclear war - don't vote Corbyn

poolietim · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:32 am

Just don't understand this clamour to have a leader who'd respond or worse pre-empt an attack by obliterating people with nuclear weapons and cause unimaginable death and destruction.

Is the biggest threat to the UK North Korea or Iran, or is it gezzers driving cars into people or blowing themselves up in crowds of kids. Will Trident ever be worthwhile or do we use the money to fund the NHS and the police to help better prevent these terrorist attacks.

You choose your leaders and place your trust
As their lies wash you down and their promises rust
You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns
And the public wants what the public wants gets
But I don't get what this society wants

KeithNobbsBigToe · **Joined:** Wed May 01, 2013 11:32 pm **Posts:** 1057

I really can't work it out. The Tories are performing so badly it's as if they want to lose.

Is the economy on the verge of collapse and they're looking to avoid the blame or do the not want to be the party that brought brexit.

I really am confused by their tactics.

TalbotAvenger · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:07 am

kevin pooles gloves wrote:

Not realy into politics but got told off an old gentleman that Enoch Powell had the rite idea!

So let me get this right, send all the nig-nogs back and all the millions and millions and millions we spend on giving them council houses, tellies and cars and such, they will redistribute in a fair and equal manner?

horden · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:22 am

KeithNobbsBigToe wrote:

I really can't work it out. The Tories are performing so badly it's as if they want to lose.

Is the economy on the verge of collapse and they're looking to avoid the blame or do the not want to be the party that brought brexit.

I really am confused by their tactics.

Just heard Lord Hague of Richmond on tv

" If Jeremy Corbyn's policies were that good, he would of been leader of Russia, and we all know what happened their

How cringeworthy is that ? they really have lost the plot.

Hague gave May her first job in parliament apparently , that in itself is damning. Out of all the horrible tories, Hague is right up there near the top.

horden · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:38 am

It's depressing Marra ! All that programme from York last night flagged up for me, was how clueless, nasty and horrible probably half of the British people have become. Anyone watching from somewhere like Scandinavia or Canada would of felt the same as you, absolutely gobsmacked.

It was good to see Corbyn stand his ground on the Nuclear question , despite coming under an intense attack from 9 middle aged right leaning tory men,, who out of an audience of 120 got to ask 29% of the questions, so much for our unbiased BBC.

Dalton'sHaircut · **Joined:** Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:26 pm **Posts:** 1013

This is where you can't lump people into either blue or red though even though this debate wants to due to the intense ingrained political bias people seem to have. Lots of people are selfish and nasty full stop and the political party they support has nothing to do with it, just look at history it's always been this way. It's education that sorts this stuff out.

A big chunk of the anti foreigner, rule Britannia nutcases are also the core labour vote, which if you read this is all about caring for other people in society and your fellow man.

To make it clear I wouldn't vote Tory this election for a number of reasons even if someone threatened to pull my teeth out but this thread I'm finding pretty superficial from many posters (Tories all devils, middle class rich public school educated people who want to destroy everything at all cost vs Labour supporters salt of the earth egalitarians who want a fair equal society). This is why people are pissed off with politics and why we continue to get more of the same, most people are brought up to support labour or conservative and will not change their minds regardless of whatever the current situation is and the current policies/leaders etc. I'm really liking a lot of the Lib dem and Green manifesto this time

For years I believed (was probably brainwashed at school) that first past the post is the best political system for strong government, I'm starting to think proportional representation is the best bet to get away from this absolute tribal bollocks every 4-5 years or so. Germany seems to have done alright with coalition governments since the 2nd world war.

Where I fully agree with Horden is the examples of Scandinavia and Canada, democratic socialist countries with high taxes but also high standards of living and education. Scandinavia has some specific economic advantages which helps them manage this system but fundamentally the culture of social responsibility is ingrained into them from birth

Dalton'sHaircut · **Joined:** Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:26 pm **Posts:** 1013

Agree with the vast majority of that Chip, which is why I'm becoming ore and more convinced we need some electoral reform and some form of proportional representation. If we continue like this we will become more and more polarized all round and it's depressing and unhealthy

horden · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:32 pm

As you rightly say, Education is at the core of a decent society, whilst our education system isn't too shabby, things are taught in a certain way, to make you conform, they ram the monarchy and the war down your throat, but very little about the atrocities we inflicted upon people across the world and nothing about working class culture, such as the trade union movement etc.

Assuming the Germans and Scandinavians have got it right , and I think they have, then you could have a coalition of 2 parties who are broadly the same ( nice people ). In this country however you could have a coalition of 2 parties who are not nice, such as a Conservative/Lib Dem coalition or the slight difference between the Tories and Nu Labour. When I say not nice, I don't mean everyone in those parties are nasty evil people, or even those that vote for them, though many are, just that those parties look after the interests of the rich rather than the interests of the vast majority of ordinary people , that is why I find Corbyn's policies a breath of fresh air.

The way things are going though PR seems the best way forward in future.

As for the core Labour vote, I think other than places like Easington, South Wales, parts of Liverpool etc, think that is a thing of the past, it seems now to be more about what you value as a person. As much chance of someone from Brighton earning 80k voting Labour as someone from Hartlepool earning 20k and voting tory. I think a number of things have contributed to this, the demise of the unions and manufacturing industry. Thatcherism and Bliarism, that took some working class into the promised land and others over the cliff edge, and 30 years of non stop military action somewhere or other, that seems to have reignited a warped sense of nationalism amongst those getting on in years, who are getting all patriotic, melancholic and dewy eyed about their past and the first and second world wars. You could more or less guess how someone would vote in the past just by looking at them, you cant now.

horden · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:42 pm

Chip Fireball wrote:

Like I say I saw 5 minutes. Generally I never watch this sort of programme, everyone in the audience is already clearly decided on how they will vote, as I suspect are most who are watching.

All the focus ends up on the leaders and their personalities, when ultimately we are voting for a party made up of around 300 politicians we hope will deliver the sort of society we want to live in.

What is really depressing are our national " newspapers " and if their headlines each day represent where we are as a nation then God help us. There is no real dissemination of information, no actual news, no impartial discussion on the facts. Just borderline propaganda cloaked in the most horrendous language, attacking individuals and groups of people.

This is a media owned by millionaires and billionaires, spouting one eyed garbage, which sadly a lot of ordinary people swallow. God knows why they think the super rich would be standing up for them or fighting their corner.

You can see quite clearly why Labour politicians in the last few years have said they would not run for the Leadership as they don't need the invasion into their privacy, the constant personal attacks on themselves and their families. Then we have the same people in the media that subjugate people to those attacks, complaining about how it is a contest between 2 poor leaders.

Likewise these " television interviews " politicians have to do which basically amount to the interviewer trying to score as many points as possible and generate a headline by forcing someone to answer a loaded question.

Frankly there has to be a better way of doing things. Corbyn strikes me as an honest and decent bloke, fuck knows why anyone would put themselves through the shit he has. Even though I fundamentally disagree with her on pretty much everything, there's even a part of me feels some sympathy for the Prime Minister, on the few occasions I've seen her on television recently, she looks on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

I haven't voted in a General Election since 1997, I will be voting this time as I think the Labour manifesto is well constructed and contains lots of things I agree with. However I sincerely hope the one outcome we end up with is not a hung Parliament and us having to go back through all of this shit again anytime soon.

A couple of other things from last night. The outrageous lie about Dianne Abbott wanting to abolish the DNA database, WTF! she never said that, why the hell would she?.

Corbyn made a good point about a refugee crisis after a nuclear war. No doubt those who don't like refugees or immigrants are the same nutjobs who want a nuclear war, mental !!

I actually think once the dust had settled , Labour would be the party to bring down immigration , despite the perception that they would have an open door policy.

My son is out knocking on doors this morning in Tooting , fair play to him. I don't think there is much more to say about the subject, there are those whose vile view of the world are so entrenched you are wasting your time. I hope in the next few days they will see sense , but I wont hold my breath.

The Morning Star was been given out free in Asda yesterday, election special I think, now there is a good paper, it tells only the truth, that's why it is usually only 4 pages thick. :laugh:

Clarence road kid · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:54 pm **Posts:** 161

I also watched the debates from York last night and thought our Prime Minister gave a lacklustre display. I cannot for the life of me understand those ageing males demanding of Corbyn about "pressing the button" for me they trivialise our existence on this planet! Trying to have a rational discussion with these people is futile because they've been brainwashed that chest beating/ talking macho/offering testosterone is the way to go!
I find The Morning Star offers a more realistic alternative to the daily right wing crap presently available.

horden · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:37 pm

Chip Fireball wrote:

Lived in the Tooting constituency for 15 years, always had a Labour MP.

I'm sure you and Wolfie Smith kept things sweet

Seriously though, never really thought of it as been solid Labour seat. Not an area I know too much about.

Just checked on Wiki, and I like you say it has been Labour since at least 1974. Sadiq Khan was MP before latest imcumbent, and when you must of lived there, some bloke called Tom Cox had held sway from 74-2005.

Good old Tooting ! wonder if Mitcham was Labour?

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Those blokes demanding Corbyn presses the nuclear button have to be the most stupid people ever to have set foot on earth.

I wish Corbyn had just said:

"Don't be fooking stupid you thick c unts."

The election would be in the bag now.

horden · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:49 pm

He did well to stand his ground. Had he even said he would use it at all, whether first or in retaliation , and that's what these thicko's want, they and the media would of slaughtered him for betraying his principles.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Why didnt they ask May that question.

They would have been shocked by the answer they got unless see lied.

Nobody would press that button.

horden · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:00 pm

The Colonel wrote:

Why didnt they ask May that question.

They would have been shocked by the answer they got unless see lied.

Nobody would press that button.

Its a good point, maybe someone should ask.

Listening to Corbyn speech on TV in Hucknall today, great stuff. He said he had 5 more rally's to attend today and 50 before the election. He must be knackered, a legend imo, and certainly someone I want leading my country and handling Brexit negotiations

Clarence road kid · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:54 pm **Posts:** 161

Will Corbyn be at next months Durham Miners Gala as Prime Minister? Surely too fanciful a dream but but - - - -

Clarence road kid · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:54 pm **Posts:** 161

There's also some very good interesting short videos on Facebook by Momentum and others - one in particular which shows Theresa berating the police federation for them having the temerity to tell her about her proposals which will create police shortages so troops Will have to be deployed on British streets to keep us citizens safe this was several years ago but what's happened very very recently?

Dalton'sHaircut · **Joined:** Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:26 pm **Posts:** 1013

Yout know what though, Brexit is my big problem with Corbynt. He is supposedly this principled politician and was in the Remain camp yet made a totally lackluster effort to push this and engage labour supporters before the referendum. I honestly think if he had done we wouldn't be in this mess we have now.

People have said it's because he was secretly a leave supporter, if so that's not so principled either is it. If some of today's latest polls prove true he may be the person who has to sort out the next few years of turmoil caused by the Tory Brexit mess. He could have also shown more courage in some form of opposition to parts of the bill put forward for Brexit by the Tories but didn't either.

horden · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:41 pm

Clarence road kid wrote:

Will Corbyn be at next months Durham Miners Gala as Prime Minister? Surely too fanciful a dream but but - - - -

Yes , he will be there

Clarence road kid · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:54 pm **Posts:** 161

I agree Corbyn was a remainer but didn't he spend an awful lot of time and put in lots of efforts at meetings around the country trying to persuade voters to remain? Wasn't he shafted by sections of the press and bitter New Labour individuals?

horden · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:50 pm

Chip Fireball wrote:

No chance he will ever be Prime Minister, the Tories have a shedload of money still to spend on advertising. They are paying Facebook a small fortune to broadcast their repulsive Fake News videos ( thankfully you are able to block them ) around immigration and the IRA. They also have the press on their side ramping up the hatred. An MP was charged with election fraud yesterday, most papers front pages today were filled with stories on nuclear weapons- the ones nobody has used for 70 years because they are only there as a deterrent.

I also just cant see the under 25 voters turning up in the same numbers as the pensioners, they never do. Which is a shame as they have the numbers to swing things in Labours favour.

The polls could be wrong I guess but most still have the Tories way out in front.

Corbyn has done a lot better than expected thus far, like I say he comes across as a very decent and principled bloke, one who has steadfastly refused to trade insults.

Brexit negotiators will be Fox, Davis, and Johnson, so God help us. I can see us getting no deal at all with them three doing the talking.

Agree, they are going to throw everything but the kitchen sink at JC in the coming days, but given their history when doing this, it will probably only ramp up Corbyns support even further.

Think kids that go to Uni will get up off their backsides to vote, but I worry about the kids from the Northern industrial towns , who wont vote by virtue of having piss poor parents. Yet is these people who need a Labour government more than anyone.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 70651.html

horden · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:03 pm

Clarence road kid wrote:

I agree Corbyn was a remainer but didn't he spend an awful lot of time and put in lots of efforts at meetings around the country trying to persuade voters to remain? Wasn't he shafted by sections of the press and bitter New Labour individuals?

A lot on the left historically were anti EU, Tony Benn was. I believe in the EU, but I voted out myself, not because of immigration but because of what I believed the EU had become and was becoming, a Capitalist club. FFS ! we never adopted the currency, we had numerous vetos, and basically wanted everything on our terms, all the good and none of the bad, the good been the bad for ordinary people and the bad the good if you get my drift. I bet the Europeans are glad to see the back of us, pain in the ass brits. I may live to regret it, only time will tell. All I know is had we remained nothing would of changed and more than likely would of got worse for the ordinary man on the street. I was out of work then, I am out of work now. I voted for chaos, and its what we are getting, sooner than I imagined. I said at the time it may force an early election and hopefully Labour might get in. It was a gamble on my part, but it could come off.

To be honest, having a Labour government is more important to me than being in or out of the EU, but if we are to be out, then a Labour government , regardless of who leads it, imo will always get along better with the Europeans than the Rule Britannia/ God Save The Queen brigade , who approach the Europeans with a gun toting John Wayne type attitude.

I can only make a guess about Corbyn's stance on the EU, my guess is he wanted to remain, but wasn't that fussed either way. It wouldn't of looked good had he wanted to leave, but no way was he going to go out of his way to campaign to stay.

I hope one day we will rejoin the EU. I think there is more chance of that happening under a Labour government than not.

offshorepoolie · **Joined:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:32 pm **Posts:** 6011

Corbyn was actually blamed by some for Brexit.He was one of those who openly said that he was only 60 / 40 remain..

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horden · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:36 am

The great man is speaking at The Sage in Gateshead tomorrow evening 630pm. A few of us are going to have a look up on the train.

Clarence road kid · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:54 pm **Posts:** 161

I'm pretty sure that you'll enjoy listening to Jezza ; as you know he talks a lot of common sense and has the ability to reach out to his audiences. He's just a good old fashioned socialist wanting to try to create a better society - - New Labour has Beens/ the establishment/ Tories can't believe what's been unleashed on them! Gerrin to em Jezza!

horden · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:23 pm

And he has done it more or less on his own. Those who instigated a vote of no confidence in him , have disappeared off the face of the earth ( if only ). The likes of Benn, Smith, Kendall, Balls, Umunna, the same people who voted for air strikes on Syria. They should apologise to Corbyn and admit they got it wrong, or better still do the right thing and commit Hari Kiri.

Clarence road kid · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:54 pm **Posts:** 161

I agree- Late Thursday / early Friday election results will be interesting; if Labour get a paggering at ballot box all the usual New Labour rats will come from behind the skirting boards to tell us that they were correct all along and us plebs just Wouldn't listen to our betters!

Pooly_Imp · **Joined:** Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:36 pm **Posts:** 2882

Jeez its like some weird Corbynite cult in here. I can accept people deciding to vote Labour, I'm still undecided myself but to be positively enthusiastic about ANY of the poor options we have to choose from this year is downright weird.

Clarence road kid · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:54 pm **Posts:** 161

I don't think there's anything weird in being a Corbynista; a better and different way of doing politics! Easy innit!

Clarence road kid · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:54 pm **Posts:** 161

This is worth a read by John Pilger-: Terror in Britain - What did the Prime Minister know?

Malcolm Dawes Knew My Father · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2011 4:25 pm **Posts:** 4198

Clarence road kid wrote:

This is worth a read by John Pilger-: Terror in Britain - What did the Prime Minister know?

Back in the day John Pilger's investigative journalism was often brilliant - now he's an elderly pundit dribbling nonsense on Russia Today, citing no evidence for his conspiracy theories. His moral indignation about the evils of Western foreign policy would play better if he wasn't cashing cheques from a regime that is propping up the Assad regime and slaughtering Syrian civilians on a daily basis.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Did anyone see the interview with Karen Bradley secretary of state for culture on TV this morning?

One of the worst responders to an interviewer I have ever seen. It was that bad it was funny.

Not sure if its viewable anywhere, but it was on ITV, and the interviewers were Suzanna Reid and Piers Morgan...........yes I know.............but they asked her a simple question about Police funding in the wake of the terrorist attacks and threat, and her answers were appalling.

Appalling to the point that she couldn't even offer a simple hope that the numbers would increase.

Watch it, and cringe.

Wommers · **Posted:** Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:38 pm

That'll be this one, then

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Aye that's the one.

And watching it again just proves my point above.

How the hell anyone has ever voted for tat stupid cow alarms me as much as the terrorist threat.

These people are in power for fucks sake.

Well labour have gone into an early lead

Gadgies online