Was all either a rip off or scruffy places for a reasonable price. We were all over London anyway so made no difference where we were based, still needed a tube journey either way.

well that was another 90 minutes of my life I wont get back, following saturdays shitfest.

How come I end up watching teams who lump the ball up to the striker all the fookin time?

Kyle Walker is a thick looking twat.

James Milner is rubbish.

Frank Lampard has never been world class.........even though he has one the best shots ever.

And as for Ricky Lambert? Oh dear.

I am sure I would have worked as hard as he did as well. And I would have been just as ineffective.

We really are struggling arent we?

I turned off at full time to stop me having to listen to Woy, but no doubt he was delighted with how it went?

I used to think the friendlies were bad.....................fook me.

We needed to not lose that game and we didnt. The aim of a qualifying group is simply to qualify, we wernt trying to win the World Cup last night. I fail to see anybody's problems with that performance. It was exactly what was required. Our fate is now in our own hands with 2 home games and that was the whole point of that defensive performance

Mr Birthmark, I dont disagree with anything you have said there.

But that doesnt make suddenly make it an enjoyable game, nor does it hide the fact the England are seriously not very good.

Nor does it hide the fact, that qualify or not, any team Under Hodgson will play the same way at the finals too.

I will be staggered if you cant see that.

Wasn't a good game to watch and majority of the game we couldn't even pass a ball but as mentioned job was done

Talksport just mentioned that if England win the group, they will have the fewest wins of any group winner, and the most points dropped. Dont know if this is right mind.

Was as bad as watching pools.The full game was about two teams scared to lose.

job was done indeed, but doesnt every performance feel like that these days? backs to the wall n workman like?

ukraine in the euros, italy in the euros, montenegro away etc etc

we're always just fighting to survive n just about scraping through.

Just mentioned as well that in this group England have only beaten the two bottom sides.

So, even though some claim it was job done last night, England must now do what they have so far failed to do, and thats beat another of the top four teams in the group.

2 draws and we will be out.

Its hardly a group of death either is it?

Yep, its like a disease you just cant shake off.

Its got to the point now that all the players actually believe it too................when once upon a time the players had the self confidence to believe they could beat anyone.

Now just drawing a game is a potential great result.

The finals will be the same.

We will treat every other team like they are world class.

its always gunna be that way under roy, he's middle name is caution, a draw is a win for him.

Of course I see that but last night those were the correct tactics

we were playing Ukraine, and not Germany, or Brazil, Argentina, France, Belgium, Spain, Holland, Italy, or any other team that will perform better at the finals than us.

exactly, u-frigging-kraine, they had 1 decent player on the left wing n thats about it.

The defenders were cloggers so we stuck a 31 year old championship standard striker up against him n james frigging milner on the left wing.

Every single left footed player in the country died a little bit inside last night when seeing milner started.

I don't think anybody thinks we are better than most of those teams. Be interesting on see how good Belgium are against a top side.

I don't think we are the best team, far from it. Im just a fan who wants us to qualify so I can enjoy the World Cup more. As I said yesterday if be gutted of we didnt qualify

we all want us to qualify. Thats goes without saying.

I would like to see us at least try and justify our "best league in the world" status, that all the players and media love quoting.

Rather than play like we are a little team battling with the big boys all the time.

Forget the target and the result, which may well be job done..................the football we played and the style we played was utter gash.

i just want us to have the best possible chance of doing well, i've made me peace with not being as good as the top teams and i just wanna see us have a bloody go at teams for a change.

I don't think anything was particularly wrong with tactics yesterday it's not as if we played for a 0-0. The full backs got forward all game and we got bodies forward every time we broke what was lacking was the quality apart from Gerrard we gave ball away constantly. As group leaders the balance between attack and defence was right just the decision making and final pass or at times the first pass was woeful. It's not as if the players thought the performance was brilliant, Gerrard said himself that they weren't great. It's job done considering the players available though.

apart from Rooney*, which other world class players were missing?

*not that Rooney is THAT good like.

Rooney would walk into every national team in the world. He is outstanding and our main hope once again. If he's fit and playing well then we can compete with he best sides.

Strange that, cos Manure leave him out regularly.

So he doesnt walk into their team.

I cant help thinking Rooney isnt quite as good as you believe.

He IS our best bet mind. But that says more about us than anything else.

so apart from the World Class Rooney, who else was missing last night that is world class?

Who is suggesting any of them are World class, but the likes of Rooney and Welbeck are better than a couple of players who played last night, I think we'd have scored last night with those two playing.

Rooney is without doubt world class. For me he has papered over the cracks in man utds midfield for some time.

After him and Wilshire on his day I really think we struggle for quality all over the park.

I thought Wilshere was terrible last night, he was playing too far forward. he'd have been better in Lampards position.

We are a third rate nation one step above the mighty Scotland.. Sort it out Woy

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Rooney is a very good player but I don't think he'd get a game for Spain, Germany, Brazil or Argentina. If he's fit and playing well England would certainly stand a better chance of scoring against international defences but would still get beaten by the best sides nine times out of ten. The overall lack of quality that Mr Stevo mentions would see to that.

Being third rate still puts England 4 steps above Scotland though.

Recent comments of players when asked who is the best you have played with......

Gerrard - Rooney
Lampard - Rooney
Ronaldo - Rooney

Now these players have played with some great players during there careers but they all say Rooney is the best. Even neymar thinks he's the best he's ever played against and singled him out as the 1 player who he's love to play alongside.

If we qualify and the press leave him alone we stand a much better chance of progressing through the rounds. As for world class players I don't think we have many at all, Rooney Gerrard and cole and that's about it. However gazza wasnt considered world class till Italia 90 so hopefully we can have some players develop on time for he tournament. Wilshire sturridge welbeck will no doubt be playing, they just need to step it up on the big stage.

You're right there about the press. If they just keep quiet the World Cup is as good as won. Any news on exactly how they made out that the photos of Walker were more recent yet?

I agree about the press.

For the record though, Rooney wouldnt have been able to lace Gazzas boots.

For a few years Paul Gascoigne was arguably the best player in the world.

''Alongside Gareth Bale, Luis is the third-best player in the world after Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. Luis and Bale are the two hottest properties out there at the moment."

Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard has described Luis Suarez as ''the best footballer I have ever played with'' as the Reds desperately try to hang on to the troublesome Uruguayan striker.

These are both direct quotes from Steven Gerrard taken from an article in the Telegraph by Henry Winter. No mention of Rooney as being in the top 4 at the moment and Suarez is his best ever.

Lampard said it when Chelsea were trying to unsettle Rooney, he's also said the same sort of thing about Drogba fairly regularly.

Lampard said it on Monday

Do you not get sky sports news over there?

Fair enough if he said it again on Monday- he's obviously gone off Drogba now that he has left which tells you something about how deeply Frank believes these things. No I don't get Sky Sports News.

What about Gerrard? I've given you direct sourced quotes where he clearly contradicts what you reckon he thinks.

Still waiting for you to explain how the press made out that Walker used nitrous oxide more recently than he really did.

Wow your worse than a women. How do you get down from that high horse, a parachute??

Its fairly obvious how the press made it out that it was recent, the photos were taken 3 months ago but appear last week before a huge game. Hardly a coincidence was it. It suddenly becomes news. Our press are shameful towards our national side and always have been.

Are you a journo??

Stop avoiding answering questions. What about Gerrard?

Nothing you've said there explains how they 'made out' he did it recently. Every report I can find says that he was photographed in June. Publishing once the season was underway certainly wasn't a coincidence but it could very easily be because the person who took the photo (looks like a phone shot so it wasn't a press photographer) waited to sell it for a good price by delaying. Most editors will publish that sort of thing quickly in case anybody else has the same or similar and scoops them so I'd be surprised if anybody at a papaer kept it for long.

I am a journalist but I've never worked on tabloids or anythjng similar.

I'm arguing with you because you've said a couple of things that seem to be factually wrong and you also keep blaming the press for England being a bit shit at football. As a fan I think you're well off the mark and should be looking at a very long term decline in coaching, the prevailing culture in youth football and the damaging impact of the FA/Premier League mismanagement of funds. And why fewer kids are actually playing the game in organised teams or clubs. Nothing high horsed about that I just disagree with you fairly strongly on that point.

The press don't help us at all, they unsettle the side time and time again before big games and tournaments. They ain't on the pitch but mentally do not help us. This is factually correct.

Are the French journos mostly all araeholes like the English ones??

As for Gerrard he said it before the euros. You have already stated lampard has said it about drogba but somehow can't see Gerrard doing the same. Strange.

Saying that most journos only see what they want to see especially if there's a life to ruin

You know this coaching thing?

And EVERYONE keeps going on about how better coaching of kids will make us better?

In my humble opinion, ITS ALL A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS.

It would take me a fetish bob length post to explain it, but I know I am right.

My younguns team are now being "coached" by someone formerly from Pools academy.

The team is about to self destruct, and they have only played one game.

Kids need to want to play. These FA coaching badges are turning the coaches into robots.

With rigid ideas and formations, and the kids just sit there listening bored shitless.

Since this coach came in, the smiles have left the kids faces, and they now play with fear.

And if anyone thinks that stopping kids playing competitive football at a young age will enourage more kids to play, and more adults to get qualified, are so dumb they shouldnt be allowed oxygen.

This country needs more parents running teams, not more qualifications, and the aprnets encourage more kids to play.

There needs to be less encouragement to enter academies.

And the academies need to get off their high horses and realise the kids would rather play competitive football.

This right is taken away from them once they sign the forms.

For some reason, those in the game, think that parents run teams for the benefit of the pro clubs, and look forward to being told what to do.

They dont, you daft c unts.

They run teams so their kids can play for a team.

hard to disagree with that to be fair

This is no lie.

I was once asked during a league game, by a scout at Pools, to move our centre back up front, so the scout could see him play as a big striker.

During one of OUR league games.

Thats how up themselves the pro clubs are.

Guess what I told him.

It boils my piss, it really does.

Trevor Brooking is the biggest wanker of all.

He actually wants parents, like me, to pay to get better qualified, then run coaching sessions 3 times a week, based around what I have been taught.

He also wants the same kids to NOT play in a competitive league until they about 14.

Now I dont claim to be an intelligent person, but even I can see the flaws in this great plan.

How does he think Parents can afford this?

How does he expect the kids to remain interested if there is no game at the end of the week?

Honestly, Brooking is such a c unt I would like to twat him with a bit of 4x2.

Did you ask the kid if he would like to have a go up front?

If you think not many kids are playing anymore get youself down Seaton CC on a Sunday morning you cannot move for the little fookers all running around in their strips (some as young as 4 or 5). Even though I know its forbbiden by the FA I'm sure they take part in friendly leagues .I think the player drop off comes around 16 where the kids who are useful move on and the social players move to the pub teams. The reason for this is the competition, as teams start playing to win the kids who are not that good decide they're not going to get a game and jack ..

At this stage they also discover beer and women and that also constitutes greatly to the drop off.

One of the biggest things is that cost of many of the all weather (and all night especially with the winter closing in ) pitches .. For me all hirings of said pitches by kids should be free paid for with a levy on the premier league (make the twats do something useful with their stash).. They whinge bou th kids going on the piss t the weekend but try and get a pitch on Saturday night.. you can't .. would not make sense forthe domes to run an u18,s league to keepthem away from the bars ( well at least until tennish!)

Finally this "FA coaches" is a red herring MyWife and I are both qualified FA coaches.

TBH Getting the level one qualification is not hard at all if you turn up and have a basic knowledge of the game its yours.

Yeh, and I also asked the kid playing up front if he would mind coming off for a bit so the scout could watch the centre back play in his position as the scout clearly doesnt rate you, but likes him

Jesus christ.

Oh, yes, I also told the rest of the team it didnt matter if by doing this we lost the game, as thats not at all important to the majority.

Oh no, it was far more important to all of them to let the scout see this one kid.

Double jesus christ.

Kids should not be put "in a position" until they can understand their role in the game .. there is too much pigeon hoing in the game . In Holland EVERY kid plays around pitch until they are about 14 . It boils my piss too just because you've got a left peg you're immediately a left winger or left back .. We should let the kids develop .. play games at the weekend by all means but WIN at all costs ..does that actually develop the average 8 year old .. I think not

Kids shouldn't be restricted in what position they play for the sake of winning sunday league games IMO.

I agree Klinger parents are far too competitive.

I liked what I heard the day on the radio a new rule that has been brought into kids footy in this country. When you get a goal kick the opposition aren't allowed in your half. So the goalkeeper can always pass the ball out to defence and the kids are encouraged to play from the back. It stops the biggest kid on the team booting the ball as far as he can which more often than not I imagine they are instructed to.

I suppose it's evidence that they are trying to change our footballing culture. It's a step up from when I was a kid I remember at the age of 10 we used to play on a full size pitch a greys with full size goals, a nonsense !

Bollocks I hate all this "for the sake of winning" cobblers. You play a game to win is not your get brought up a looser and that shows in my eyes. Winning breads confidence and kids should be taught this is life if your shit as something work that out early and go and do something your good at.

I do agree about everyone playing in every position. Just because your a midget like me doesnt mean you cant be a forward etc (Owen did ok).

We need more close control and smaller pitches as mentioned above.

How bloody old do you think these kids were?

If you honestly dont think kids are extremely competitive by the time they are 14 you are mental.