Fecking council tw@ts

GroovyCrimes · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:58 pm

Ive just had a letter through my door,fixed penalty fine of £75 for littering on catcote Rd,it says a cigarette end.
For fecks sake I only have a couple of fags when Im out for a pint,theres no way I was smoking while driving along catcote road at 1 in the afternoon rage

Compo · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:00 pm

GroovyCrimes wrote:

Ive just had a letter through my door,fixed penalty fine of £75 for littering on catcote Rd,it says a cigarette end.
For fecks sake I only have a couple of fags when Im out for a pint,theres no way I was smoking while driving along catcote road at 1 in the afternoon rage

what

i didnt know the council was that hot on littering why dont theyget out and catch the criminals

John the Baptist · **Joined:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:04 am **Posts:** 634

You've got to be joking??? :evil:

Have you asked for photographic evidence?

I've chucked many a tab end out of the car window. :uhoh:

On Catcote Road too! :uhoh:

monkeehanger · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:03 pm

F&*k me!!!! Have these people nothing better to do. I guess there must be no serious crime left in the town to worry about if they have wasted this much time AND money on your fine!!!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! banghead

GroovyCrimes · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:05 pm

John the Baptist wrote:

You've got to be joking??? :evil:

Have you asked for photographic evidence?

I've chucked many a tab end out of the car window. :uhoh:

On Catcote Road too! :uhoh:

Ive literally just got the letter 10 minutes ago,it says £75,reduced to £50 if I pay within 7 days "You will not be liable to conviction for the offence if you pay the fixed penalty within 14 days"
There is also no right of appeal mentioned here.

John the Baptist · **Joined:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:04 am **Posts:** 634

Does it say on what basis they are making the accusation?

E.g. "you were seen" or "you have been caught on camera" ?

Miss Tigga · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:13 pm

My God. Can they really stoop any lower!!

You gonna pay it, or appeal?

John the Baptist · **Joined:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:04 am **Posts:** 634

Write back and tell them that the seven days cannot begin until you receive the evidence. Also ask them the law under which they are prosecuting, and if it is on camera evidence check that they are entitled to do so, whether or not there should be warning signs up (like they have in Peterlee) that would allow them to do so, and the location of the signs.

GroovyCrimes · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:18 pm

GroovyCrimes · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:20 pm

I wont be paying it,I will force them to take me to court & produce evidence,thinking back,I gave someone a lift from town to Manor that day & he had a fag on the way,I really didnt take any notice wether he used the ashtray or window so I guess thats where it came from.

John the Baptist · **Joined:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:04 am **Posts:** 634

I'd still love to know whether or not it is a "caught on camera" offence or if it is just some overpaid council busybody stood there snooping on the passing public?

Hangem · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:25 pm

I thought the postmen where on strike today.

grabec · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:33 pm

John the Baptist wrote:

I'd still love to know whether or not it is a "caught on camera" offence or if it is just some overpaid council busybody stood there snooping on the passing public?

Good question. It can't be a 'caught on camera' offence because Groovy didn't do it. Outrageous, it is.
What other 'crimes' do they intend to settle in the same way....murder? blackmail ?

John the Baptist · **Joined:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:04 am **Posts:** 634

Agree in principle Chip, but not with tab ends.

I NEVER chuck any litter about but admit that I HAVE , rightly or wrongly, in the past dropped tab ends both from the car and when walking.

But I abhor other littering.

Am I a hypocrite?

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:54 pm

John the Baptist wrote:

Am I a hypocrite?

I can't think of a single argument that would suggest you ain't :laugh:

The important question is do you leave tab ends or any other form of litter on beaches?
If you do I'll send the gang round!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB6PX_CQBNc

grabec · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:55 pm

chip fireball wrote:

i would actually like to see more council workers fining folk for chucking stuff out of car windows.okay a tab end may be overdoing it but the principle is sound.
they can start at burger king where fat lazy shite eating thickos hoy stuff out of their windows onto the floor rather than walking a few yards to the bin.
it encourages rats seagulls and all manner of vermin and it makes the place look an eyesore.if the mayor is behind this then hats off to him.
if i caught either of my bairns chucking litter on the floor i would ground them. but they wouldnt do it because they have been brought up properly.
if you routinely litter the place then you are worthless scum who should be fined. or locked up.
imho like.

Mostly true, but there's still (or ought to be) the principle of having a case against you proved tho, isn't there? And some of us have had experience of council workers which suggests they might not be all that reliable with this sort of responsibility

John the Baptist · **Joined:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:04 am **Posts:** 634

chip fireball wrote:

thats why its best to get them outside burger king while they is parked up. ask them for 75 bar and if they refuse to pay up spray their cars with battery acid. the penny will soon drop.

Is Chip "down wiv da yoof speak like" clappp

grabec · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:04 pm

But remember, people who got to Burger King are seriously large and scary looking....(no-doubt why the council is concentrating on tab end offenders!)

katcha · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:05 pm

a lit tab end is a problem i think

bad craic that mind tone

take em to court

get the evidence

John the Baptist · **Joined:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:04 am **Posts:** 634

Why not fine Burger King or McDonalds or whoever for every one of their wrappers which is found littering the street?

They will have to pass the price rises on to customers to pay for it.

And their food is shi'ite anyway.

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:12 pm

John the Baptist wrote:

Why not fine Burger King or McDonalds or whoever for every one of their wrappers which is found littering the street?

They should fine them anyway for just being there in the first place :evil:

grabec · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:13 pm

Cornelius Atweasle wrote:

And what about all the crap that's left in the town centre after a weekend?

Are the tab bobbies fining people then?

Sorry, not going to read any more of your posts until you say where it is you're going.

(It's just that you don't want to admit you're off to Skegness for a fortnight at Butlins, isn't it?)

John the Baptist · **Joined:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:04 am **Posts:** 634

Cornelius Atweasle wrote:

I once spent a week in Minehead at Butlins having three young boys.

Spender · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:27 pm

Apparently we aren't having our rights eroded, we're just moaning.

I have never heard of anyone anywhere else in the world being castigated for dropping a fag end.

Someone just comes and sweeps them up here. Paid by the council.

Miss Tigga · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:52 pm

Pooliekev wrote:

Apparently we aren't having our rights eroded, we're just moaning.

I have never heard of anyone anywhere else in the world being castigated for dropping a fag end.

Someone just comes and sweeps them up here. Paid by the council.

It's against the law in Singapore. You get fined there if you do it.

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:04 pm

Come on now no one makes you smoke and no one is stopping you being tidy with your fag ends. It's called being civil.
I may be wrong but I thought the only complaint from Groovy was for getting wrongly done.

John the Baptist · **Joined:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:04 am **Posts:** 634

Cornelius Atweasle wrote:

John the Baptist wrote:

Cornelius Atweasle wrote:

I once spent a week in Minehead at Butlins having three young boys.

Why would that shock you?

Cos I didn't think that you had the energy to do three! :laugh:

Gibsons Beard · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:29 pm

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER · **Joined:** Sat May 19, 2007 11:00 am **Posts:** 20758

If someone in your car (mate) throws a tab end out then im pretty sure your responsible for it as its your car. May be wrong like.

poolieinnottingham · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:39 pm

I was walking down one of the main pedestrianised streets in Nottingham the other day, when a very loud disembodies voice shouted 'The lady in the blue dress and white cardigan, you've just dropped an empty crisp packet, pick it up NOW or you will be prosecuted'.

I looked around to see where the council official with a megaphone was, but nowhere to be seen. The said woman sheepishly picked up the crisp packet, and that was that.

The local news this morning had a feature on this new CCTV thing with speakers. So you've got a gadgie sat in a control room watching for people littering, who warns the litterer, and if they don't heed it they track the offender on the camera and a pretend musker is directed and 'nicks' them.

Now part of me thinks its a good idea as I hate litter, but then I am horrified about the Orwellian nature of this kind of development. First city centres and then what?

Fensy · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:15 pm **Posts:** 6471

There was something similiar on the local news a couple of months back in I think Middlesbrough

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:49 pm

poolieinnottingham wrote:

Now part of me thinks its a good idea as I hate litter, but then I am horrified about the Orwellian nature of this kind of development. First city centres and then what?

Awkward one isn't it.
The crisp packet did get picked up so it worked. The cameras are there anyway, so you could argue it is putting them to better use than using them to give spot fines as they did with Groovy. It goes against the apparent concensus on this board that each new measure is just another way of collecting more money.

If a flesh-and-blood cop had said the same thing I don't think there'd have been the slightest problem.

But despite that it still seems a bit scary doesn't it. A bit like the series The Prisoner.

3Quid · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:11 pm **Posts:** 1791

Tree_With_Hamster wrote:

If someone in your car (mate) throws a tab end out then im pretty sure your responsible for it as its your car. May be wrong like.

Nah Tree, remember that off-duty copper who got off with a speeding fine because he couldn't remember who was driving the car when it was well over the speeding limit? :roll:

It's a fooking farce and just another way of making money out of the revenue that the government are losing from the smoking ban stpid

Kudos to Tony for not paying it and taking further clappp

poolieinnottingham · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:52 pm

It was the 'removed' nature of the incident that I find unsavoury. Like you say, if a proper musker had approached her it's a different scenario, but this kind of technology paves the way for all sorts of uses and abuses.

TalbotAvenger · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:10 am

John the Baptist wrote:

Why not fine Burger King or McDonalds or whoever for every one of their wrappers which is found littering the street?

They will have to pass the price rises on to customers to pay for it.

And their food is shi'ite anyway.

Bouiger Kiing and Maaaaaaaaaaacdonalds only serve the stupid bounders

If they are too lazy, stupid, thick, or stupid, or thick, stupid and pig cnuting ignorant to dispose the THEIR own litter, they should be hit with a fooking large baseball cnuting bastid bat

Littering, I fooking HATE it, bounders!

Spender · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:35 am

And of course now we've got the lamp-posts telling us in loud stentorian tones to pick up your litter we'll all be getting a council tax rebate 'cos Ted Wellie isn't needed any more??

OR seeing as you now pay TWICE as much Council Tax as you did in 1997, do you think they could possibly recruit a few street sweepers to clean it all up?? Is it anything to do with the fact that those of you who take their litter home and put it in the bin only get it taken away 24 times a year??

katcha · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:00 am

chip fireball wrote:

you see kids out with their parents hoying empty crisp bags on the floor all the time and the parents dont even bat an eyelid. its no wonder the place looks like a shithole most of the time.

i think it was the mayor who said at some point that if you come into hartlepool from the north or the south by train then the first thing you notice is that the trackside is awash with shiit that folk have just chucked out. visitors cant help but think they have come to some northern hell-hole full of illiterate smack-heads fouling their own nests.

i was down asda tonight about quarter to ten and as usual the rats and the seagulls were raking through the shite from the burger king drive thru, hoyed on the floor by lazy arseholes. i see its got so bad asda are having to put the green boxes full of poison down for the rats.its like the fookin dark ages.

if folk bothered bringing kids up to show a bit of respect we wouldnt need the big brother tactics.

Aye.

have you not noticed how over the past few years hedges and so on have disappeared from on the marina, near takeaways etc - they've all been thinned out to stop the rats from hiding but they dont even care to hide anymore.

chip - asda again!!

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:44 am

Pooliekev wrote:

do you think they could possibly recruit a few street sweepers to clean it all up?? Is it anything to do with the fact that those of you who take their litter home and put it in the bin only get it taken away 24 times a year??

Come on Kev own up; you MISS walking around up to your ankles in shite don't you :laugh:

Spender · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:55 am

Aye, yes, course I do!!

I tell you one civil liberty I'd vote to have repealed tomorrow. Chewing gum. Dirty filthy sticky stuff. Eventually the whole surface of the planet will be covered with chewing gum and it will cease to breathe. It's not like you can just get a brush and sweep chewing gum up. You need an army of fookin' technicians. :roll:

DerbyshirePoolie · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:23 pm **Posts:** 90

poolieinnottingham wrote:

I was walking down one of the main pedestrianised streets in Nottingham the other day, when a very loud disembodies voice shouted 'The lady in the blue dress and white cardigan, you've just dropped an empty crisp packet, pick it up NOW or you will be prosecuted'.

I looked around to see where the council official with a megaphone was, but nowhere to be seen. The said woman sheepishly picked up the crisp packet, and that was that.

The local news this morning had a feature on this new CCTV thing with speakers. So you've got a gadgie sat in a control room watching for people littering, who warns the litterer, and if they don't heed it they track the offender on the camera and a pretend musker is directed and 'nicks' them.

Now part of me thinks its a good idea as I hate litter, but then I am horrified about the Orwellian nature of this kind of development. First city centres and then what?

If you are not sure about this you definetly won't like what some of the people where I work are developing next...

Intelligent CCTV

Intelligent CCTV offers the opportunity to enhance existing security monitoring services to incorporate proactive management of Transport locations by automatically highlighting and recording events in real time that are predefined within the intelligent CCTV system. Examples include the automatic recording of a passenger who runs up a down escalator, a car being driven above the speed limit on a motorway, or specific recording of an event if requested by mobile staff investigating an incident. The challenge is for suppliers to wrap a manged service around these new systems. Intelligent CCTV will see traditional security solution providers compete with IT service providers as more value add components are added to the core solution.

Basically the same as the new system in Nottingham but instead of a human operator a computer will spot the fact you've dropped litter record the offence and pop the ticket in the post for you!

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:48 am

There is an upside to private intelligent CCTV. It can recognise intruders but also non-standard behaviour by lone workers (i.e., identify employees in distress requiring emergency help).

parmopooly · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:58 am

there's one underlying theme in a lot of all of this - there were a lot of visionaries such as George Orwell a long time ago, who were scoffed at for their "fantasies" and "visions of the future."
Time machines anyone?
PS the first place I would like to go in time is backwards. Maybe have my knowledge of the past eradicated on the way, so as to not have an unfair advantage about what will happen next (although that already happens anyway, every time I'm pissed my memory of that time juncture is mysteriously erased)

parmopooly · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:02 am

richard head wrote:

There is an upside to private intelligent CCTV. It can recognise intruders but also non-standard behaviour by lone workers (i.e., identify employees in distress requiring emergency help).

We have a man-down alarm system at work for lone workers. There are receivers on the entry to every building on site, and if the signals are not regularly received from the mobile unit (i.e. the lone worker passing through doors etc) on a regular basis, or if the signal becomes stationary, the alarm is raised and an automatic phone call with pre-recorded message is sent to the ETOL emergency services control room. It will also pinpoint the location of the man down.
Bit of a bastard if you get woken up by half a dozen fire bobbies in the canteen.

DerbyshirePoolie · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:23 pm **Posts:** 90

richard head wrote:

There is an upside to private intelligent CCTV. It can recognise intruders but also non-standard behaviour by lone workers (i.e., identify employees in distress requiring emergency help).

This wouldn't be just used in private areas though. It would be used at train stations and bus stops and the complete lack of human involvement worries me.

GroovyCrimes · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:09 pm

How does this sound ?

Quote:

Dear Sir/Madam
I am writing to you concerning fixed penalty notice No L*** which alleges that I deposited litter (a cigarette end) on Catcote road on Tuesday 24th July.
I would like to ask that you review this notice as I not only did not deposit a cigarette end on Catcote road on Tuesday,I have not deposited a cigarette end anywhere since I stopped smoking in January this year.
I appreciate the prompt issue of this notice & look forward to your prompt reply.
Yours Sincerely

John the Baptist · **Joined:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:04 am **Posts:** 634

Sounds good to me like.

Except the spelling mistake in line 1 :wink:

But on a grammar note it's 'Yours faithfully' with a 'Dear Sirs' and you could forget the Madam.

You might also want to add "Please confirm that the reduced penalty period will remain in force during any investigation you may find necessary."

Spender · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:16 pm

On a pedantic grammar note it's 'Yours faithfully' with a 'Dear Sir' and you could forget the Madam.

Actually I'd much prefer to finish with 'so fook.off!!' but it wouldn't do you any favours, you could also add 'Please confirm that the reduced penalty period will remain in force during any investigation you may find necessary.' Stop the bastards doubling it.

GroovyCrimes · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:19 pm

I see no spelling mistake,your eyesight must be a bad as the council tab end police
(either that or I edited the post :grin:

)

Cheers Kev,I always get the faithfully bit wrong,not sure about the reduced penalty bit as that hints that I may be prepared to pay up in the end which Im not,they will have to go all the way & prosecute.

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:01 pm

change this:

"I would like to ask that you review this notice as I not only did not deposit a cigarette end..."

to this:

"I ask that you review this notice. Not only did I not deposit a cigarette end..."

The first is grovelling. The second is assertive.

Spender · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:31 pm

GroovyCrimes wrote:

I see no spelling mistake,your eyesight must be a bad as the council tab end police
(either that or I edited the post :grin:

)

Cheers Kev,I always get the faithfully bit wrong,not sure about the reduced penalty bit as that hints that I may be prepared to pay up in the end which Im not,they will have to go all the way & prosecute.

Aye well fair comment, I'd see it as 'don't go getting any ideas about the higher rate until you produce dna evidence, photographs and six witnesses that I chucked the fag end down.' Puts you in the assertive role I'd say.

Fecking council tw@ts

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