https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 0920055336

Sad and staggering that places like Hartlepool and Sunderland actually voted for this. Just think of those Blue passports though.

Hang on, I'm no Brexiteer but isn't this just what all producers of big Diesel powered SUVs are doing?

The vehicle in question is the Nissan X Trail. It’s actually made at Fukuoka in Japan.

"2016 - Nissan has confirmed it will build both the new Qashqai and the X-Trail SUV at its Sunderland plant following government "support and assurances".
The Japanese company's commitment to Britain's biggest car plant had been in doubt following the EU referendum. "

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37787890

We had all this when we didn't join the euro too.

No we didn’t we had nothing like this.

We don’t have a precedent for this madness.

Tweet from David Conn;

“Nissan came to the UK in the 1980s because we were in the EU, lobbied by Margaret Thatcher, decided on Sunderland as their European base. Now industries being wrecked by Brexit, pushed by her deluded / lying successors.”

and article;


https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/o ... SApp_Other

Brexit came as a surprise to me, I never expected it to happen, but then Cameron would never have given us a referendum if he thought there was the remotest chance of it coming to fruition. Oily Dave was confident he could make promises about the finality of it all because he was confidently going though the motions. He got it wrong.
However, we really shouldn’t be surprised.
To put things into perspective, our region has lost many thousands of jobs over the past 30 years and no one gave a shit.
I lost my job in the 80’s and new house and was told basically to just get on with it, that’s life, it happens. So I got on with it.
In the big picture, we were decimated as a region and left to rot. Reasonably well paid skilled jobs have gone in their hundreds of thousands to be replaced by basically poor paid or part time jobs.
If anyone is looking for the reason we got Brexit it’s the neglect of areas outside the South East that’s caused this.
Nissan are always held up as the hostage in this respect and when the Euro came up their big boss threatened to move production out of the UK, he’s now in custody in Japan awaiting trial. The ironic thing is, the numbers employed by Nissan were no big deal and disappearing in a couple of months in traditional jobs at one time .... and we were told tough, it’s the way of the world.
This whole Brexit scenario is the offspring bastard of all UK Governments neglect and EU ambition.
I get a bit tired of people who weren’t around when a lot of areas were systematically decimated over a protracted period getting the vapours over this. Brexit is the inevitable expression of people getting a chance to shake the establishment as all the party’s have the same line.
We lead the way when we elected H’angus. I was tickled when we had cabinet ministers expressing shock at his election, but the message we were sending out was simply we had no faith in the existing traditional party’s, in other words we’re electing a monkey, it can’t do any worse.
Free bananas’ on a bigger scale.

We did, I was there.

So was I and I don’t think it even resembled this.

I remember a bit of scaremongering but the vast number of British people had no inclination to ditch the pound. I certainly don’t remember any civil unrest or talk of Marshall Law! Ultimately like Brexit it is not something that should have been put into the public’s hands as the complexity and impact are too great, it wasn’t.

I think just about anyone with any modicum of common sense can see that leaving the EU without a deal is crazy. That is very close to be a reality. I can see why areas like the North East voted against establishment (did they though as the root of this was ALL down to a power struggle in the Tory party) but it’s like severing your own limb then hitting yourself on the head with it. They voted against something that had done far more good for the area than any Tory government ever will.

Tory government, Labour government, what did any of them do? ALL the party’s have basically presided over decay in the North East. You really do not have to look far for cause and effect. All governments have unwittingly bred a resentment and now they’re paying the price. The EU image sadly is the factory closes and they give a grant to build a community centre to hold the job club. If you haven’t been affected, life’s granny and Dandy.
I honestly don’t think jack shit will happen, they’ll either get a deal or some fudge will be made because all politicians are basically fudgers the world over.
I didn’t see the point in the refendum, but we are where we are, so we make the best of it. If you fall into the docks you don’t drown out of spiteful petulance at being in the dock against your will, you try to remedy the situation by adjusting to the situation.

You have to accept the result of the referendum and that we are leaving the EU as you going against the principles of democracy if not but I think the biggest issue is that they aren’t making the best of this, quite the opposite in fact. Self interest and party politics have prevented this since day one.

Why would anyone give a shit what you think or anyone else thinks is common sense?

The people that voted to leave had their reasons and understand that there would be bumps in the road short term. You don’t think people should have been allowed to vote, well tough titty they were and have.

When March 29th has been and gone most people will just get on with life. It won’t be all negative or all positive but we will all survive and carry on.

Also it’s martial law not Marshall law....

Although I think the lesser of two evils is to stay in the EU, I think Brexit could be made to work if a Labour government was in power and doing the negotiating. The tories as usual are only thinking of the impact of leaving on their rich friends in businesses, and keeping their friends across the water happy, by making sure a united Ireland doesn't sometime in the future allow the Russians or Chinese to build an airbase in Cork.

As for the North East it was fooked before Brexit and certainly will be after Brexit, it would of been fooked had we voted to stay in the EU and will stay fooked even more so after voting to leave.

Your typical Brexit fan there in a nutshell.

Marshall law

like it or not that is true. its bad if nissan does close but while we have been in the common market and then the eu how much of the motor industry has been lost in this country as a whole. briish leyland car, bus and hgv factories gone. bus body builders gone. not that many years ago you boarded your bus to work that was made in bristol and bodied in lowestoft. most of our railway stock was manufactured in this country and not imported either.

PJ is clearly worried that the Tekken character may show up to clear up the post brexit mess. Don't see what you find funny about that.

I'm just glad we're getting are cuntry back from the tyranny of the Euro

Every day I'm stopped from doing what I want to do by them, although to be fair I can't think directly of one actually law, they are still bastards

I'm also putting my faith in old etonians and the like who will make loads of money from it, while they fuck off to live in Europe

I'm also not worried that any breakdown in the supply chain and the JIT system will probably stop me getting the insulin I need to treat my diabetes, you can stockpile that, can't you Boris?

So what I made a spelling mistake.

You didn’t actually say anything in your post. Lines like ‘not giving a shit’ and ‘tough titty’ explain the thought process of a lot of people who voted Leave. What were your reasons for voting leave by the way?

I don’t agree with the idea of a people’s vote, the result of the referendum must stand but we are now in a position were we face a realistic prospect of the country being plunged into absolute chaos, and for what? Surely nobody voted for that. We need solutions, our politicians have failed everyone for over two years in failing to come up with any, childishly saying you don’t give a shit and saying it’s tough titty is just making noise a lot of leave people are like this. It’s a total mess, and for what at the end of the day?

So what I made a spelling mistake. It’s not a phrase I have used since school and I never thought I would have to about the UK in 2019.

You didn’t actually say anything in your post. Lines like ‘not giving a shit’ and ‘tough titty’ explain the thought process of a lot of people who voted Leave. What were your reasons for voting leave by the way? A lot of people voted off the back of outright lies from the leave campaign, self serving cowards who have slipped into the background.

I don’t agree with the idea of a people’s vote, the result of the referendum must stand but we are now in a position were we face a realistic prospect of the country being plunged into absolute chaos. Surely nobody voted for that. We need solutions, our politicians have failed everyone for over two years in failing to come up with any, childishly saying you don’t give a shit and saying it’s tough titty is just making noise a lot of leave people are like this. It’s a total mess, and for what at the end of the day?

Double post.

I voted for chaos, in the hope that it would lead to the election of a Labour government. Politicians have failed us for around the last 40 years. Things weren't right being part of the EU , and needed change, though I do believe things will now be worse out of the EU, unless Labour save the day, however I don't think Labour would win an election now, thanks to the media character assassination of Corbyn.

It's amazing people still admit to voting for brexit, just look at the split of pools fans that voted for it. You are essentialy agreeing with the shouty idiots on the Facebook page.

I don't like darkies, nigh-nogs and Pakis. I don't like frogs, krauts, dagos and wops. I don't like Scots, Welsh or bloody Irish. I don't like southerners, brummies, cockneys, tykes or scousers. I don't like Geordies, mackems, smoggies or loids and I fecking hate yakkers. I hate people from Seaton, owton manor, the headland and west view. The people over the road get on my tits and my next door neighbour is a twat. I voted brexit to get rid of that lot, but I can't get rid of the worst thing of all.... me.

I think you will find I voted for a different reason to that lot. For me it was about the excessive rampant capitalism that benefitted the rich at the expense of ordinary people, not because of immigration. However I have always said, most of our problems have been inflicted on us by the tories not the EU , and that's were people should of been looking to apportion the blame , not the EU. And yes New Labour weren't blameless either.

Is this the fault of the EU?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... pbMm39yRY4

[quote="horden"][

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... s-cuts_uk_
problem with all councils was no matter what you give em they always want more. increases every year was the name of their game with the usual more chiefs than indians coming to mind. worked for a local authority bus company who became privatised and guess what non revenue collectors were pushed out at the earliest conveniance with a whole office block shut down and there was no reduction or quality of service reduction whatsoever. 3 doing one job and mechanics only doing a job they were employed for stopped as quickly as possible. then there is the council vanity projects. enough said.

Whatever is going on at Nissan is a concern - and we don't really know if the issue is one of potential job losses or the loss of new jobs, so we should wait until Nissan says something (rather than the soundbites of the Unions, Vince Cable and that twat business editor on ITV).

The great thing about Nissan, in my humble, is how it came to be located at Sunderland. Councils throughout the UK were fighting for it (and promising grants in the days when regional grant incentives were like a competition) but here in the NE, after some amazing work by a number of senior Council executives in the likes of Teesside Borough Council, Tyne and Wear and County Durham, the local councils agreed to work together - to maximise the attraction of the NE bid.

They put forward the Sunderland airfield site, promised road network improvements and produced a capital and job creation grant cocktail - and, working in harmony, were successful for the good of the region - not any individual borough. So credit to them.

And so, be it because of the move away from diesels, due to that bumptious twat Bojo and his ridiculous sidekick, Gove the man with a four sided head, the electorate of Wearside and others voting Brexit, or any other reason - the ending of investment is a great shame given that, at its beginning, it was due to the councils of the NE working together - putting the region ahead of local interests - like proper adults. Shame that the politicians in Westminster can't do likewise.

It’s NOT the end of production at Sunderland, the new Qashqai model is to be built at Sunderland.
A lot more ‘cash cows’ will be built than the dated concept X Trail.

Obviously this news is a boon for those wanting to stay in the EU , but to be fair, this news could of happened regardless of Brexit or not , its more about market conditions, but Brexit has tipped the scales, rather than been the one and only reason.

Even when we were in the EU without a hint of brexit there were car companies relocating from the UK to Eastern Europe with the aid of EU grants.
We were getting screwed over long before brexit.

Loan star if we leave this Brexit bollocks does it mean all these eastern European brickies who drive our prices down will welcome to the board home!

Remain just flapping as per usual then ??

There Brickwork is questionable mr verbal..are they even aware of the 2-1 at Specsavers ?

The EU has just concluded a trade deal with Japan which means the 10% import tax on Japanese cars will no longer apply so the advantage of making the X-trail in Sunderland over Japan has just vanished plus the EU is anti diesel so the prospect of selling many X-trails in Europe is low. If Brexit was a significant factor Nissan wouldn't have taken the decision now they would have waited until the end of March when the details of future arrangements are known.

so downfall in diesel car sales, the emission regulations the fact the car is already built in Japan and therefore a new production line is not required has nothing to do with this decision. Lets blame Brexit. All those business decisions given by Nissan have f%$£ all to do with this it just Brexit...…….. get a life and stop blaming that and look at the wider picture(s)

I have been enjoying (that is me being sarcastic) reading some of the informed comments by the experts on the car industry trying to explain that Brexit is not a part of this story...I need to be careful what I say but to debunk some of the expert assessments from our retirees on the board.

The New X Trail that was going to be built in Sunderland was not planned to have a diesel derivative, it was to be petrol and versions of electrification. The business planning has been based on the long term knowledge of the impending EU/Japan FTA and the collapse of the diesel market in Europe.

In terms of waiting until the end of March, the run up to a start of production of any car has a series of milestones for investments and planning including buying tooling and sourcing parts. As it stands we are 6 weeks away from Brexit and have no idea what the arrangement is going to be for the UK's future relationship with the EU, the best case scenario (which is a laugh to call it this) is a transition period of another 2 years whilst the UK government negotiates it's future trade relationship with the EU. Based on the last 2 years there is no indication that the outcome of this will be successful nor that the hard right disaster capitalist wing of the Tory party won't drive a political strategy towards a hard Brexit in the end anyway. Ongoing uncertainty for at least another 2 years, worst case crash out WTO disaster (if you are a manufacturer in the UK).

So putting these things together it is quite obvious why FDI (foreign direct investment) in the UK is down by circa 80% overall in the last 18 months as manufacturing particularly has no idea what terms it will trade on in the future so lead times are forcing them to make alternative decisions for more surety. I won't go into the details here but more or less the only Brexit supporting economist out there, the Brexiters favourite, Patrick Minford states that leaving the Customs Union and single market means the UK will run down it's manufacturing base as per the coal mines of the past.

So as per Nissan's official statement there are a number of business reasons for the decision but anyone trying to argue that Brexit is not a factor is quite frankly wrong.

Ultimately if people want to support Brexit for whatever ideological reasons go knock yourself out but don't try and reason that this is not affecting jobs in the UK because quite simply it already is today and also will in the future.

Honestly, such utter shite been spouted by the leavers including the ubiqutious suggestion of racism. Friggin utter rubbish.

Why on Earth do people believe the scare stories? For example as suggested above - problems with insulin. Why would there be issues when the only possible problem would be customs? That'll be our customs of which we are in complete command. We buy billions of things all over the world and in many many cases they are for the JIT process. So why when we buy stuff from Japan, American, Africa, Australia is it not a problem but it is when it's from Europe post Mar 29th? They when exporting to us are beholden to out customs rules so why is an issue. The trust is that there is no issue unless you believe project fear version 158.

TBF it wasn't just racists that voted for Brexit..........not nice people did too

Oh and by the way, Nissan.

Nissan are in the shit in all sorts of ways and none of them to do with Brexit. Their CEO is in jail and the arse has fallen out of the diesel market. Even Nissan have admitted its down to the E6 emissions regulations and the next tranche will hit it even harder as it goes to DPF+



But let's blame it on Brexit eh.

Christ, even the BBC admit it.

I tried to explain above but it appears you would rather quote journalists. I'll happily have a constructive and private chat with anyone on this issue I am not trying to point score but I also can't put too much in writing onto a forum publically. Yes it is a business decision but Brexit uncertainty is a factor as per the official statement (and like I said new X Trail is not going to be a diesel model!)

My point about that quote was that even the rabidly anti Brexit BBC agree that this is not related.

I'm not convinced that they aren't planning to use their DCI engine in the EU but that aside; Nissan are cutting back because of huge sales losses, particularly in the Far East. Yes uncertainty of Brexit is a factor across all businesses but that doesn't mean that Brexit is wrong it means that the management of the process has been piss poor. As for the threat of us crashing into recession post Brexit - yes there is a risk with any change but I would suggest that given the state of a lot of Euro economies, there is a greater risk of us being shackled to that lot. The EU is teetering on the brink with the possible exception of Spain, even Germany is looking shaky not to mention the Italians, the French and most of the southern countries. Many of them are looking at the arse end of recession and they still have to cope with the loss of business from a non EU Britain. The loss of UK revenue will hit them hard. We'll suffer too but I suggest not as much as staying in.

I suspect that you'll find these countries starting to push back on the Junkers of this world and a deal will happen, there is also a building anger in this country against the EU.

Have you even read the article you quoted? It doesn’t say at all that it’s not related to Brexit it just points out other factors. The last part of it states the reasons that are related to Brexit. Mr Dalton’s seems better informed than most here....

There’s always an article to fit the viewpoint and give succour to ones personal opinion.
Everyone has a report/ article to justify leaving or remaining.
As long as people read their preferred articles and not a range of articles and viewpoints you end up fuelling your own paranoia.

I know nothing about the car industry but I do know a bit about aviation and there are real similarities with what Mr Dalton is saying about Nissan. While there is no doubt that fear levels are being stoked up for political reasons there are clear business reasons behind the CEO of Airbus pointing out that other countries can make wings.

The company won't suddenly pull out of the UK but it already does all of its final assembly work in Toulouse, Hamburg, Mobile, Tianjin and Quebec. The wings have to be taken there. For a long time proximity to the European assembly plants, frictionless trade and expertise in wing manufacturing made sticking with the UK sensible. You can add across EU cooperation on research and defence projects as another good reason because quite a lot of work on advanced materials and designs is very expensive so manufacturers don't just take a punt on their own.

As older models are phased out or improved you need completely new wing designs and they require new factories. The amount you save by re-fitting an old one is negligible so a company could weigh up all the pros and cons. As the UK will be turning its back on research partnerships, trade might not be easy or smooth and currency fluctuations are more likely than ever you can understand that considering other locations seems logical. China are always up for a mutually beneficial deal and their standards of engineering are excellent, India the same. You've also got the option of making the wings next to the final assembly lines, local and national governments and the EU would certainly offer a helping hand.

Basically, at a time when there is a massive backlog of aircraft needing to be built the UK is about to make itself less likely to get what has been its usual share of the work. Suggesting that Airbus is going to close plants in April is fear mongering, pretending that in the long term the UK isn't going to do less well out of aviation is burying your head in the sand.

Did you? the thrust of it is that it is not down to Brexit. At worst they say 'it's not helping'. The trouble is that this board is infected with PC leftie bias that believe the only reason the stupid people voted for Brexit is that we hanker after the old days of love thy neighbour.

The scare stories get worse by the day. In every case they take a worst case scenario, work on the basis that we will change nothing at all to counter the threat and then come up with a big scare headline. For example; no fruit and veg despite the majority of it coming from non EU countries and we can easily up the numbers from them. Medicine shortages despite the fact that it's entirely within our own control. Then throw in an assumption that the car manufacturers will lose one of the worlds biggest markets without challenge.

In the eyes of leavers the EU is some kind of perfect world which is mindblowingly stupid. I have no fear of no deal in fact I want it more than any half baked agreement. I want it not because it means less 'darkies' because it doesn't. It simply means that we have control over our own destinies.

Well said Mr I good post

It is a well known fact that global car sales are down dramatically and Nissan are not exempt from the problem.
It is also a well known fact that when sales are down, on any product, then companies look to cut production.
Nissan produce the X trail at home in Japan and abroad in Sunderland.
If you had to forecast which plant might suffer and which plant would be given preference, where would you put your money?
When the result of the Brexit vote was announced I said that all differences should be put to one side and we should all work together to get the best possible outcome. We didn't do that and the battle raged and it is still raging.
Lo and behold, MPs within the Tory Party, from both sides of the argument, have suddenly just decided to shelve their differences and work together to get the best deal possible.
It's a pity they didn't think like that two and a half years ago and it could be argued that, by not doing so, they stand accused of a complete dereliction of duty, as do others who planned.plotted and dithered against putting our best efforts into delivering what the people wanted.
We became a divided Nation, thus giving all the advantages to the EU negotiators.
These plotters, planners and ditherers voted to give the people the final say. Because the referendum result was a complete shock to them, they decided to do everything in their power in get the result reversed, using the excuse that the people weren't aware of what they were doing.
The Irony is that these very same plotters are now advocating we give the people another vote to pull them out of the shit pile they have created, always assuming that they will get the result that they think was their right to get in the first place.
But what if they don't get the result they have plotted for?? What then??? Will we have to go on being plotted against until the public get so sick and tired of these shenanigans and decide enough is enough and we are forced to crawl back to the EU pleading to be allowed to stay in.
If and when that day comes we will get one big enormous shafting from our 27 "friends".
When we arrive at that point, who will we blame.
Will it be the people who voted in the referendum or will it be the people who refused to accept the result and slowly but surely steered us into an even bigger mess.
Whether you voted remain or leave, whether you think your side was the best informed or not, the fact remains we are where we are and the only way out of this mess is a united one.
I put the idea of a united front forward hours after the referendum result was announced and it has taken the Government MPs over two and a half years to catch up with me.
Bloody disgrace.

For some of us, "just getting on with it" is unlikely to be an option. In fact, just about the only option will be to stop being British.
The problem with that is you can take the man out of England but you can't take England out of the man.

No deal Brexit = Economic Russian roulette with all chambers full.

But of more importance Friday 8th February at 7.30 BBC2 Eurovision starts.Cant wait.