Two soldiers killed and others injured

I thought all this was finished with.... Seems its not....

Lets just hope its a one off.

It did finish ages ago, it's just a stupid person who's stuck in the past.

This is just a horrible exception to to what has been years of peace in Northern Ireland.

For the sake of the people of Northern Ireland, I hope you're right, Mutley.

I suspect there has been a combination of dissatisfied political extremists and out and out criminals who have terrorised working class areas especially in Belfast on a low key, local basis whilst the political process has been developing.

Anyone who assumes that all has been sweetness and light in Northern Ireland since the cessation of hostilities with Sinn Fein and claims that this weekend's events are isolated would be a fool.

The 'Real IRA' are about as extreme as it gets. These are serious people not daft lads. It's led by a guy called Mick McKevitt, the name was quite famous amongst British Forces way back in the 80's. A real nutter but a clever one. Oh, and he's married to Bobby Sands sister. McKevitt is I believe banged up at the moment but seeing as the lovely Bernadette will be running the show you can be confident that she'll be getting her orders from him.

They'll be history soon enough, trouble is they'll be replaced by someone else. There will always be a group of people who see themselves as the natural successor to Michael Collins.

Chip, fuck off.

out of order, Mr Fireball

Thats a bit heartless chip these lads where just doing their job and keeping the peace.
Co-indidentally muslims ARE killing our soldiers on an almost daily basis in Afghanistan.

I think a retraction is appropiate.

On the basis that you are using the murder of two soldiers to justify your views on an unconnected discussion.

I'm sure Mr I and the rest of us accept that "nutters" exsist in all colours and creeds..

Maybe some think you are only classed as a terrorist of your are muslim? If you are irish maybe you are a freedom fighter?

Either way, chip, you are involved on a thread you should just keep out of.

I suspect that all Chip is saying is that you can't pick and choose who to be politically correct about, or if you do, people will disagree with you.

As for the point about Afghanistan, of course the indigenous army is killing the 'invaders'. I've heard many an ex-service-man on this board say that we shouldn't be over there at all.

I agree about Afghanistan but our soldiers are still getting killed..

Chip I'm sure Mr I knows all about cowardly catholic murderers as well as protestants having been involved over there....

And I stand by that. I have never however said anything other than the few remaining hard line Marxists are continuning the fight in N Ireland. The IRA are concentrating on getting rich 'The Real' 'The Continuity' 'The 32 Group' etc etc are sticking to their killing.

Either way, these 2 UNARMED lads did their job as best they could. RIP lads, duty done.

The bottom line is that you don't use dead bodies to make a point on a message board. Both Bresslaw and myself lost mates over there and likely as not one of two others.

Undoubtedly. And the UDA and UFF are protestants. The Stern Gang were Jews and the KOSMO were a mixture of both.

So Mr Fireball, when did you do your time in Northern Ireland??

Because I can assure you that I, Mr I, and Mr Bresslaw can tell a very different story than a comfortable written version.

Where you there ?? My time was 1976, late March to early November. The standard six month tour. We lost 18 serving soldiers in that tour in our battalion.

I don't think anyone's read a comfortably written version, Spender, don't get irate, man. As I read it, he's making a point that's nothing to do with anyone's service in N Ireland.

Thats the thing that civvies never get you see. When you join up, its not a job. You join a brotherhood whether that be Infantry, 2nd or 3rd line support , Air Force, Grey Funnel Line its all the same. Your closest mates are just friends; you live with them, eat with them and do all sorts of other reprehensible things with them.

Now when you go off to Ireland or Afghanistan and these brothers get killed, it kind of stings for the rest of your life so forfuckinggive me if I don't get the joke when another two young lads of that same brotherhood are murdered for no other reason than they ordered a pizza.

The subtext here is that Chippy is accusing Mr I of being a racist.

Take into account that (according to the media), muslim terrorists are sponsored and trained by religious fundamentalists based in Pakistan and Iran, or am I wrong.

I doubt the Real IRA have a hotline to the vatican and are not committing acts of terrorism in the name of Mary Mother of Jesus or the Holy Trinity and are not committing suicide so they can go to heaven and inherit the favours of seven virgins.

The terrorism carried out by muslims is in the name of Allah whilst the terrorism of the Real IRA is in the name of militant Irish nationalism/republicanism. Yes they are probably white (lapsed) catholic but their motives aren't religious.

If I wanted to accuse anyone of racism I wouldn't do it on the back of two young lads and their grieving families.

Chip,

I'm going to have a look at your last post.

I bet MrI will do the same.

I'll be coming back on this.

People are deluding themselves. Despite what the politicians say there's still a huge undercurrent of support for IRA action.
The day the "official" IRA announced their laying down of arms (which was less that 4 years ago), every single Irish person I met, and I used to meet quite a few, was gutted.

Chip/Mr Head

You are I think, confusing professional exiled Irishmen with the normal people who live in Ulster. It's those who don't live there who see things simplistically. These are the people who believe theiy are Irish because their grandparents once met someone from Dublin. I'm sure half of them believe that Cromwell is still over there. The majority of people who live in the province were overjoyed it was all over.

We could go on forever about the wrongs and rights of a divided Ireland but thats the way it is.

The is my over simplistic view of the situation the Irish who didn't want to be part of the UK have a choice to live in Eire and the ones who do can live in Northern Ireland.

The thing is there is always a few who want to take it one step further..

I say let loose the SAS again and sort the bastads out once and for all.

Come on then, lad. we're on the edge of our seats

But, to be racist is to pre-judge someone in a negative way on grounds of their race, ie to let their race define them. That's why many jokes about race, aren't really racist..the jokes might mention racial differences, but they're not in themselves condemnatory.

You might have justified negative feelings towards the groups and individuals you mention, Mr I, but the racist aspect (if there is one) would be either to ignore the fact that other groups are committing exactly the same sorts of crimes as the ones you mention, or to conclude that all people of the same race as the criminals mentioned are of the same ilk.

I am no way good enough informed to comment on this debate however I just want to pick up on something mr I said:

Either way, these 2 UNARMED lads did their job as best they could. RIP lads, duty done

I understand that it was horrendous thing that happend but dont fully understand the comment duty done. I for one have the upmost respect for the armed forces and dont think the lads who have died would have thought their duty has been done by getting killed having a pizza.

My only comment on what has happened over there this last few days is sorrow.
I spoke to my uncle last night who lives in Pomerey County Tyrone and they are very worried about the rise of the filthy real IRA scum ordinary irish catholics want peace.

RIP brave soldiers and policeman.

Sorry Mr I but none of that makes you racist. It just means you hate scum. And all of the above are scum.

If it is racist, then I am racist too.

During the attack one of the lads shielded others with their bodies. They did all that they could have in that situation. They died defending others and when it comes down to it, thats the agreement that you sign in your unlimited liability contract when you take the Queens shilling.

Personally I go along with General Eisenhower "It's not my soldiers duty to die for their country, its their duty to make sure the other bastard dies for his"

Mr I.

You are though, a Serial Humpist. Which is unforgivable, and which I deplore.

No, I'm against Humphreys because of his politics. He's stated that he is of the left but continually drifts towards the centre.

How dare you accuse Humphreys of being Tony Blair.

How dare you accuse Humphreys of being Tony Blair.

I couldn't confuse the two, Tony Blair led his team into two battles.

Humpist

The Irish I'm talking about are proper Irish with Kerry, Donegal, and Dublin accents and yer fukken bollox and all and all.
True they don't live there ... but that's just for now.

are they waiting for the revolution or something

No, just shagging as many foreign birds as possible.

Ey up Miss Grabey I had to go to work, how else would I feed the bairns.

Where all this started was with Chip inviting MrI to condemn the Irish terrorists on religious grounds the same way as he's done in the past with Muslim terrorists.

Chip's argument is on the lines that if it swims like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, then it's a duck. He gives all sorts of examples of how catholics are involved with and have supported Irish terrorism over the decades and therefore it must be a religious movement.

But....is it the objective of all the Irish terrorism since they blew the head off Nelson's statue in Dublin in the early 60's to establish a religious state in Ireland and the answer is clearly no. The objective of the Republicans is to unite Ireland as a single republican state free from the control of the UK government. As a movement it is entirely secular.

So should catholics be condemned for the recent violence...no, along with the world's media I think it's Irish republicans who advocate and perpetrate violence that should be condemned. I'm not defending them or expressing any sort of support for the cynical bastards who have been involved over the years but they're not doing all this in the name of any sort of god.

How dare you bring Scouse scallies into a debate about the Irish, catholics and Muslims.

All three of them deserve more respect than that.

Sorry, my friend, but I don't think chip was saying anything of the sort. What he said was something like: nutters are nutters independently of colour or religion.

The entire point has been completely missed here.

When I did my Northern Ireland training, as a serving soldier aged 19 and not a smart mouthed smug damned bounder, we had a lecturer in Political and Social Sciences from Staffordshire University come and tell us what we were facing. A much older bloke of a much higher rank asked him at the end of his presentation whether there'd be an end to the situation. His answer was, ' not in your lifetime, son.'

It's not and has never been about Catholics and Protestants. It's about Republicans and Loyalists. Try facing your enemy when he looks the same as you and has no uniform.

Chip, you're off your range. Forget it. Believe me, more happened in Belfast in a single night than happened in London, or anywhere in the mainland in ten years.

Stick to football.

Our Kid.....Chippy's entitled to his opinion.

And Miss Grabey thats not where Chippy started from.

Fortunately the world isn't run from the bunker control room though there are worse control rooms.

Goodnight said Zebedee

It's exactly where he started from. He was following the logic of an opponent's point of view to show up contradictions, (and to prove that nutters can be nutters etc etc)

I know you're into Latin names, so I'll tell you this ploy is known as 'reductio ad absurdum'



By the way, I'm not going to act as his interpreter any longer, since no remuneration whatsoever is being offered in return

Aye okay



Pop Sweeby at Lister Street talked about little else.

Of course he is.

But he's never formed it through a nightsight in the Short Strand.

So when he can say his arse has gone, sixpence, shilling, half a crown, when the bricks start landing from behind him, and he's being shot at from in front, maybe he can give a meaningful insight into the debate.

It's just cock eyed theory otherwise.

I'm surprised none of residents politico's have pulled you on this point he actually led his team into THREE battles as did St. Margaret of Grantham

Led is not the word I would have used meself like.