I've never been very interested in footie stats - and have never felt motivated to play Football Manager or any other simulation - but I'm interested to know what you base that opinion on? I found something on Reddit that rubbished Who Scored, but that was 9 years ago, so presumably they've done loads more work on it since then?

Happy to be corrected but I believe it just uses stats which it determines as good or bad to make a rating. So it misses players doing things wrong off the ball etc and also misses things that a person watching would see e.g a goalkeeper mistake leading to a conceded goal would rank the same as a goalkeeper conceding a goal that no one would save.

As the old saying goes. "There's lies, damned lies, then there's statistics." Is that a fair conclusion???
Personally, if an interesting recruit appeared on the market, I would have to go and check him out. I would genuinely question the opinion of someone who has never played the game.
If I had a list of attributes that I was looking for and statistics showed a certain player ticked a lot of the boxes, I would go and have a look, firstly to see if he did tick the right boxes and secondly did he actually fit in with the sort of team I was trying to build.
I don't believe in blind shopping but I do accept that sometimes there is no alternative and would only use that route as a last resort.

Crawley,s new owners the Crypto boys, Are great believers in stats.

Decision making now there is a stat to make you take notice.

Says here that Big Ben made more saves than anyone else in the league over the season.
At least i think it does.
So much for stats eh !

https://fbref.com/en/comps/16/keepers/League-Two-Stats

I wonder if Mr Hartley at any point questioned the opinion of Mr Trotter.
Oh to have been a fly on the wall.

I suppose there may be some overlap between Bitcoin investing on the currency markets and statistics /data analysis.

I doubt very much that the likes of Brentford and Brighton sign players on the basis of a player's performance data alone - you can't measure character and obviously a player has got to fit the manager's requirements. That said, stats do tell a hell of a lot about what each individual player does and doesn't do on the pitch and they are completely impartial - not based on someone's impression of a player, be it a chief scout or an ordinary fan.

Comparing the players signed from the Scottish leagues with the ones signed from the English leagues last pre-season, it's pretty clear Hartley was the one whose opinions needed questioning. Hastie and Tumilty or Umerah and Sylla? Now that IS a no brainer

One thing Curle got right, he personally watched Dodds a couple of times before signing him.

w

The first person who needed their opinions questioning was/were the person/people who advised the recruitment of Hartley in the first place. That kicked the whole mess into action. Hartley proved he had no experience of English football and no idea what was required in the EFL. In other words he was inexperienced. I would take experience as a key factor in recruitment but not the only factor. Just about every job advert ends with send your current CV to......... A CV is your journey so far and, more often than not, whether you get an interview or not depends on it. Notwithstanding the fact that there are occasions where people are head hunted, tapped up or the devil you know.
Just for the record. It's not a case of the old diehards rejecting modern techniques and /or improvements. If there are aids to successful recruitment emerging then it is only right to give them a chance but I prefer to introduce them as a possible improvement not a replacement, initially at the very least.

Every managerial appointment is a risk, some of our best would have had worse CVs than Hartley (Turner, Cooper, Murray, for example).
Also to be fair was the vastly experienced Curle any better than Hartley?
Clough was widely regarded as one of the best but Leeds players didn't like him and he didn't last long.
Hopefully we've got a good un in Askey and he gets the right players in and we get off to a flyer

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65549007.amp

Billy Beane sums it (Moneyball / data analysis) up perfectly.

Remember the Torquay keeper in the play off final Lucas Connovan well he is out of contract at Port Vale, sort of guy you do not want to play against and would rather have on your side. At 6ft 4inches is a good size for a keeper.

Yeah remember his antics at Bristol and his contempt for Pools in shootout. Gamesmanship certainly but if he signed for us I might forgive him.

On every measure he was. Hartley win percentage - a pathetic 9.1%. Only Mick Docherty did worse in the entire history of Pools. Curle's win percentage - 24.1%

Hartley's percentage points per game - 21.2%. Curle's - 32.2%.

It was relegation form from both, but the start under Hartley was a disaster. 4 points from a possible 27 in the first 9 league games played. His one win was in the Pizza Cup. The info is from In The Mad Crowd.

CVs mean nothing as far as I am concerned, my CV very rarely if ever got me a job, it was word of mouth, recommendations and the new employer contacting my previous employer.
Singh or who ever should have been onto Hartleys previous employers for references, you can put anything on a CV to make you look good. When I was working loads of CVS were put in front of me, some looked like the person was a rocket scientist not a tradesman.

doubt any club sign anyone on stats alone. they are probebly used at the outset to weed players out and saves them being watched. then they can concentrate on watching the ones that fit the bill. the only thing stats will never show is what a player is like off the pitch. without knowledge of the player who is good on the pitch is his dressing room arttitude and his lifestyle away from the club.

I did cover the scenarios that you are used to. I agree that CV's can be "doctored" but they are still heavily relied on in some quarters, but it is up to the job advertiser to do due diligence and weed them out. As a matter of interest I have never written a CV. In my day people were presented with an application form and from that were invited for interview or not as the case may be. So application forms were also prone to "doctoring" Some will slip through though.
Yes it's easy to contact previous employers but there is a reluctance to allow a prospective employer to contact your present employer, who might be a bit miffed to find you are exploring other avenues, especially if those other avenues are competitors. Raj, for instance, appears convinced that DC was looking elsewhere and, in retaliation, cut his budget.
I am convinced that other areas of recruitment, such as agents, paint a vivid picture enhancing their client's attributes to get a better deal. It goes on in all walks of life. In some areas, especially finance, as soon as somebody comes on board from a competitor that person is quizzed about others that could be approached.
If I was offered a job as manager of a football club, no matter what the recruitment procedure was, I would want the final say and would do my utmost to see the guy play. After all that particular player could eventually get me the sack. I would seek help and/or advice from trusted sources but ultimately the final decision is down to me.
Obviously if the board said the player was too expensive, or the player said the contract offered was not acceptable then I bow to that. That scenario would probably trigger further conversations over recruitment policy.
There is no size that fits all and there are plenty of tools available including statisticians to use in order to make the best possible final decisions.

I think Hartley appointment showed basically Singh hasn’t a clue about football, a quick look into his background would have shown he didn’t really have much success as a manager then went on to allow him to sign players no one had ever heard of and give them 2 year contracts.

I would love to hear the full story regarding Hartley's appointment but I guess we never will.
I would dare bet that Singh had never heard of Hartley.

Singh actually admitted to that.

A quick look at Hartley’s background shows that he had around 400 games management experience across all 4 Scottish divisions before coming to Pools, he’d won 4 league titles as manager, got into the playoffs once and had 2 full seasons in charge at Dundee in the Scottish Premiership, finishing 6th and 8th.

God knows how.

Fairs fair Mr Jamie i don't think its quite correct to say of Hartley he didn’t really have much success as a manager ??

A "quick look" at Hartleys managerial success compared to Challinors pre pools.

Sure Hartleys record was in the Scottish lower leagues.
Alloa Athletic: Scottish First Division play-offs 2013: Scottish Third Division 2011–12.
Dundee: Scottish Championship 2013–14.
Cove Rangers: Scottish League One 2021–22: Scottish League Two 2019–20.

But Challinors was in the Northern Premier and National League North !!
Colwyn Bay: Northern Premier League Premier Division play-offs 2011.
AFC Flyde: National League North 2016–17: Northern Premier League Premier Division play-offs 2014.
Northern Premier League Division One North 2011: FA Trophy: 2018–19

Helps when there are only 10 teams or so in a league.

So who convinced Singh to take him on, was it Hartley himself at an interview or somebody else.

Adrian Bevington was advising on football matters before Lennie Lawrence, so he looks to have carried the can. Hobin's departure is maybe not unrelated too.

I suspect it was the 2 other board members at the time Adrian Bevington and Lee Rust.
Bevington ex Boro and English FA media man has since been given the order of the boot, although the OS site hasn't been updated. His replacement is Lennie lawrence veteran ex Boro manager
Rust is still hanging about, although i would expect his days are numbered given a]the impending sale and b] the "no go" on the ground purchase from HBC,which is what I believe he was supposed to be leading on.

"What impending sale"

Sorry Mr Grayhoundend.
Can I change the word impending to "anticipated" sale?
Or maybe "proposed" sale.
Whatever.

Anticipated maybe more in line, lol

Would be fitting and exciting if Matt Uggla rolled up.
Fat chance.

shows yet again you cannot rely on statistics alone. remember it wasn,t just raj who was conned but many supporters were happy with his appointment when it first happened. lets be honest lads who forecasted relegation on the day he was appointed. think i was one of the most negative where i said anything could happen from the play offs to relegation.