Double standards

poolieinnottingham · **Posted:** Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:50 pm

Yesterday I went to Lidl, and in the car park was a car that had been clipped from the side causing all the bumper to pop off.

So I took a photo of it, and posted it on my local Facebook group, with the caption:

"Looks like Ant McPartlin has just been to Lidl."

All hell broke loose. Loads of people think he just because he has 'problems' he should be excused for driving whilst pissed.

I'm sure if I got behind the wheel after a skinful and crashed into a car with a bairn in it I would quite rightly be called out for being a shithouse.

Are people really that influenced by the media?

Mumtaz's rucksack · **Joined:** Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:38 pm **Posts:** 1643

Problems? People who don't know where their next meal is coming from or how they are going to feed the kids or have kids suffering from cancer have problems. He's just a typical celebrity who gets caught doing something wrong and pulls the "i need help" card. Wanker

SomethingClever · **Joined:** Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:16 pm **Posts:** 83

Couldn’t disagree more with the above comment. It’s been well documented that he has had an alcohol and prescription pain killer addiction and has had therapy for it, clearly it hasn’t worked given that he’s now been done for drink driving. There’s absolutely no excuse for what he has done and he deserves every thing that he is sentenced to for what he has done. But to essentially say that the only reason someone can have problems is if they don’t have money is just plainly ridiculous. One scenario does not mean that the other is any less valid.

The original post referring to a joke at what Ant’s expense is obviously in bad taste, but as you said, he is fair game for those kind of jokes.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37590

There's plenty expressing their sympathy or him. Just another drink driver to me.
Am I the only person baffled by their popularity and find them as funny as a land mine....?

Monkeybutt · **Joined:** Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:22 pm **Posts:** 2428

Snowy wrote:

There's plenty expressing their sympathy or him. Just another drink driver to me.
Am I the only person baffled by their popularity and find them as funny as a land mine....?

You don`t go to games and cannot comment :hand:

Mumtaz's rucksack · **Joined:** Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:38 pm **Posts:** 1643

What has kids having cancer got ro do with money? And given the money he has he could afford a chauffer. Also, there is a mass amount of people with alcohol and prescription painkiller addictions who don't drink and drive. Why do people feel the need to defend him. He's done wrong. Take the rap like a big boy

Yubep · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:35 pm **Posts:** 25266

Snowy wrote:

There's plenty expressing their sympathy or him. Just another drink driver to me.
Am I the only person baffled by their popularity and find them as funny as a land mine....?

I’m sure most people aren’t expressing sympathy for drink drinking but more than likely people with mental health problems.

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Yubep · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:35 pm **Posts:** 25266

SomethingClever wrote:

Couldn’t disagree more with the above comment. It’s been well documented that he has had an alcohol and prescription pain killer addiction and has had therapy for it, clearly it hasn’t worked given that he’s now been done for drink driving. There’s absolutely no excuse for what he has done and he deserves every thing that he is sentenced to for what he has done. But to essentially say that the only reason someone can have problems is if they don’t have money is just plainly ridiculous. One scenario does not mean that the other is any less valid.

The original post referring to a joke at what Ant’s expense is obviously in bad taste, but as you said, he is fair game for those kind of jokes.

This

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Mumtaz's rucksack · **Joined:** Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:38 pm **Posts:** 1643

Would people be so quick to defend him if he'd killed one of their family members driving whilst over the limit?

Monkeybutt · **Joined:** Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:22 pm **Posts:** 2428

Yubep wrote:

Snowy wrote:

There's plenty expressing their sympathy or him. Just another drink driver to me.
Am I the only person baffled by their popularity and find them as funny as a land mine....?

I’m sure most people aren’t expressing sympathy for drink drinking but more than likely people with mental health problems.

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So does mental health cover drink driving and pill addiction?

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

Monkeybutt wrote:

So does mental health cover drink driving and pill addiction?

I'd say addiction is a mental weakness. Drink driving can't be excused but could possibly be a result of his addictions. His mam was in the car wasn't she? What was clouding her judgement?

Chesssington · **Joined:** Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:36 pm **Posts:** 900

PIN, the majority will just laugh at your post taking it in the spirit posted. You will then get some (a miniscule minority) that take offence.

I wouldn't worry what the miniscule minority think....

Chesssington · **Joined:** Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:36 pm **Posts:** 900

double post bbolt

verbalkint · **Joined:** Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:08 pm **Posts:** 3135

I was once addicted to crunchy nut cornflakes and I came through the other side without any rehab or counselling in fact I was just called a greedy fat bastard ! People don't understand addiction is a illness

Bossa Nova · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:51 am **Posts:** 376

Everybody who acts like an arsehole now has some "condition" to explain it, "I was addicted to buttercup syrup", "It was my parent's fault", blah, blah, blah. We make choices, we have to live with the consequences. In a world full of unimaginable horror and pain - beamed into our living rooms every evening (just try and watch "I'm a celebrity..."!)- I don't have a lot of time for the addictions of the permanently indulged.

poolieinnottingham · **Posted:** Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:49 pm

Chesssington wrote:

PIN, the majority will just laugh at your post taking it in the spirit posted. You will then get some (a miniscule minority) that take offence.

I wouldn't worry what the miniscule minority think....

Not worried just baffled.

Really perplexed that people think he should be let off the hook. I'm sure if he had injured or killed the bairn the tabloids would have taken a different line and everyone would want his blood.

I don't think my joke was in poor taste either. Basically referencing a local car crash with a high profile one, both of which didn't result in any harm. It has really surprised me how many people have gone right off on one. Just wish they had the same level of passion about homelessness, people using foodbanks, the way the NHS is being dismantled, the housing crisis etc.

Maybe I should just send my CV off to Cambridge Analytica.

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:56 am

I admit that what I am about to say is nitpicking of the highest order, but the term is self-deprecating.

Twilight Zone · **Joined:** Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1428

With the amount of money this tw*t gets he has no excuses at all ...All he had to do was to employ a personal driver

PJPoolie · **Joined:** Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:28 pm **Posts:** 15342

I haven’t seen anyone anywhere who has said he should be ‘let off’ or treat differently to anyone else caught drink driving I just don’t think he should be thrown under a bus either when he clearly has issues which he has acknowledged. I have sympathy for anyone suffering from depression, commenting on how much money he has is absolutely ridiculous, how is that relevant? I always stick to the line ‘never judge a man until you walked in his shoes’ and also ‘money doesn’t bring happiness’ just look at someone like Robin Williams.

There’s no excuse for drink driving but I hope he gets better soon.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37590

Monkeybutt wrote:

Snowy wrote:

There's plenty expressing their sympathy or him. Just another drink driver to me.
Am I the only person baffled by their popularity and find them as funny as a land mine....?

You don`t go to games and cannot comment :hand:

You've lost me there.

Kolley Kibber · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:00 am

There's a lot of people on this post who seemingly haven't suffered from mental health issues, and great for you that you haven't. I hope it stays that way.

As someone who has (and still is in a way as it is an ongoing battle) dealt with some problems, I can very well understand how alcohol and/or drugs can be used as a crutch. When you're at your lowest, you would do anything to make yourself feel good for a while. The second comment is utter bollocks. I have a good job, great family and I should count myself lucky. Yet all of the money in the world and all the love of my family didn't make me feel any better when I was really struggling.

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

verbalkint wrote:

I was once addicted to crunchy nut cornflakes and I came through the other side without any rehab or counselling in fact I was just called a greedy fat bastard ! People don't understand addiction is a illness

Thank God you recovered, it must be difficult going down the cereal aisle at Tesco.

congress_tart · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:11 am

In some respects I can understand why someone in his position may be more vulnerable to mental illness. He may look at himself and think that what he has should mean he should be ridiculously happy, and then struggle to understand why this isn’t the case.

Yubep · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:35 pm **Posts:** 25266

Kolley Kibber wrote:

There's a lot of people on this post who seemingly haven't suffered from mental health issues, and great for you that you haven't. I hope it stays that way.

As someone who has (and still is in a way as it is an ongoing battle) dealt with some problems, I can very well understand how alcohol and/or drugs can be used as a crutch. When you're at your lowest, you would do anything to make yourself feel good for a while. The second comment is utter bollocks. I have a good job, great family and I should count myself lucky. Yet all of the money in the world and all the love of my family didn't make me feel any better when I was really struggling.

Very open n honest kolly.

My dad had depression in the 70s. 80s. 90s. 00s. Undiagnosed. Would spend long periods in bed. Called lazy by everyone. Outwardly sociable n bottled it up. Had a breakdown in 2007. Had about 4/5 periods in Sandwell park since and probably will again.

1 in 4 people live with mental health problems but because people can’t see it and people can hide it/live with it its ignored.

Ants messed up by drink driving n he deserves full punishment for that. Should never get in a car under the influence.

I really hope he gets the help he needs in rehab n comes through this.

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Kolley Kibber · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:24 am

congress_tart wrote:

In some respects I can understand why someone in his position may be more vulnerable to mental illness. He may look at himself and think that what he has should mean he should be ridiculously happy, and then struggle to understand why this isn’t the case.

Exactly. Matt Haig's excellent book 'Reasons To Stay Alive' talks about that. 'I should be happy, so why I aren't I?' Can get you deeper into the trough.

Yubep · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:35 pm **Posts:** 25266

John Gregory said to Stan Collymore when he was at Aston Villa

Your a rich footballer what have you got to be depressed about

If only it was that simple

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poolieinnottingham · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:03 pm

Lots of my extended family are/were alcoholics. Some of them literally drank themselves to death, they simply couldn't stop. It leads me to the conclusion that there is some random genetic propensity to addiction, given that some of their brothers and sisters could enjoy a drink or two without turning into a twat, and knew when they'd had enough.

Alcoholism and mental health are completely bound up in each other, they aren't separate things. Not all people with mental health are alcoholics (or addicts of other things), but all alcoholics have mental health problems.

Hopefully people will be kinder to each other in the future, there does seem to be a greater understanding of depression and self medication and how people tick (or don't).

horden · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:10 pm

Yubep wrote:

SomethingClever wrote:

Couldn’t disagree more with the above comment. It’s been well documented that he has had an alcohol and prescription pain killer addiction and has had therapy for it, clearly it hasn’t worked given that he’s now been done for drink driving. There’s absolutely no excuse for what he has done and he deserves every thing that he is sentenced to for what he has done. But to essentially say that the only reason someone can have problems is if they don’t have money is just plainly ridiculous. One scenario does not mean that the other is any less valid.

The original post referring to a joke at what Ant’s expense is obviously in bad taste, but as you said, he is fair game for those kind of jokes.

This

This This. Its not the drink driving , its the mental health problems behind it/ that led to it. So in that respect any decent human being would look at it sympathetically, though I can understand those that don't, its a question of choice, i just wouldnt want to live in a world where the majority took the latter option. Money shouldnt come into it when it comes to people having problems, though it seems having money certainly helps when the punishement is dished out. As someone said earlier in the thread, why the fook do we put these people on a pedestal in the first place?. In the grand scheme of things how talented is Ant McPartland/. Would he be of any use , if you were stuck on a desert island with him?.

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horden · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:57 am

phil wrote:

Since when was people's talented measured by their usefulness on a desert island? That leaves a very short list of talented people in the world, and there is only so much TV Bear Grylls and Ray Mears can host.

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Meaning , that as mere mortals we put very ordinary people on pedestals and practice idolatry, but when things are cut back to the mere basics, such as being stuck on a desert island, real talent is called into question, someone who can light a fire without matches, a carpenter , someone with a brain , a tradesman etc. Yet mere mortals like these in everyday life are given scant financial remuneration and recognition for their talents. Yet these people could save your life and get you off island, not Ant and Dec or Gary Barlow or Nigel Farage.

horden · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:59 am

phil wrote:

I think that there is a proper misunderstanding about what addiction actually is and how it affects people. It is very easy to sneer at people who are struggling with addiction to medication or alcohol like it is there fault, but in the case of alcohol and many other substances, we are talking about a chemical dependency. If you have been drinking alcohol excessively and daily for an extended period of time, then suddenly decide to stop you are at a great risk of seizures and death.

The research into alcohol addiction is not the easy fix everyone thinks it is. There is no model that has universal success, and many models that are used by rehabs and the NHS are more unsuccessful than they are successful. These high costs rehab clinics that celebrities and the rich and famous are actually more often than not detox centres, rather than full blown therapy clinics.

Let's put it into context. A person feels like their problems (debt, relationships, childhood trauma etc) are overwhelming and alcohol is their only coping mechanism. This becomes problematic and dangerous, and creates even more problems, so the person decides that they need to get help. They go to rehab/detox for help with their alcohol use, and make good progress. They're discharged and sent home. They get home, and no one has done anything about their initial problems to start with. So, their problems (debt, relationships, childhood trauma etc) are overwhelming and alcohol is still their only coping mechanism.

I completely disagree that addiction is a "mental weakness." There is a complex web of protective and risk factors that makes up what may make a person more or less likely to succumb to addiction. It is not an issue that entirely based on a person's biology or personality. Working class men in Hartlepool, who have witnessed their parents struggling with addiction, are more likely to experience addiction than a middle class women from Chelsea. That is without considering an individual's resilience, coping mechanisms, and access to support.

Addiction is not considered a mental health problem itself. Mental health services will not support people struggling with addiction, that is for Drug and Alcohol teams. However, people who experience mental distress are at a significantly higher risk of experiencing addiction, and vice versa. The research shows that the best way to solve problems of mental health are through using medical intervention, psychological intervention and practical intervention. The more successful interventions in addiction also use this model.

I agree that people have the power to make decisions. Ant chose to drive that car. What happened afterwards was his fault. However, the reason it is important to discuss what led to that decision, is that people can try and prevent it from being made. I totally reject the idea that people have excuses made for them based on their childhood or whatever. When was the last time a murderer was released because they were abused as a child? It just doesn't happen. Having empathy for people and trying to understand why they made a bad decision, is not the same as excusing it.

And finally, on the joke. I think Ant would have probably laughed at it. He was self-depreciating about his experiences during I'm a Celeb, and I suspect he'll do the exact same thing if/when he comes back this time. I think the reason people are being so sensitive about this is because they like Ant, not because they care about addiction. You don't see this sadness when Gazza relapses, or when Amy Winehouse died.

Great post !

horden · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:59 am

phil wrote:

I think that there is a proper misunderstanding about what addiction actually is and how it affects people. It is very easy to sneer at people who are struggling with addiction to medication or alcohol like it is there fault, but in the case of alcohol and many other substances, we are talking about a chemical dependency. If you have been drinking alcohol excessively and daily for an extended period of time, then suddenly decide to stop you are at a great risk of seizures and death.

The research into alcohol addiction is not the easy fix everyone thinks it is. There is no model that has universal success, and many models that are used by rehabs and the NHS are more unsuccessful than they are successful. These high costs rehab clinics that celebrities and the rich and famous are actually more often than not detox centres, rather than full blown therapy clinics.

Let's put it into context. A person feels like their problems (debt, relationships, childhood trauma etc) are overwhelming and alcohol is their only coping mechanism. This becomes problematic and dangerous, and creates even more problems, so the person decides that they need to get help. They go to rehab/detox for help with their alcohol use, and make good progress. They're discharged and sent home. They get home, and no one has done anything about their initial problems to start with. So, their problems (debt, relationships, childhood trauma etc) are overwhelming and alcohol is still their only coping mechanism.

I completely disagree that addiction is a "mental weakness." There is a complex web of protective and risk factors that makes up what may make a person more or less likely to succumb to addiction. It is not an issue that entirely based on a person's biology or personality. Working class men in Hartlepool, who have witnessed their parents struggling with addiction, are more likely to experience addiction than a middle class women from Chelsea. That is without considering an individual's resilience, coping mechanisms, and access to support.

Addiction is not considered a mental health problem itself. Mental health services will not support people struggling with addiction, that is for Drug and Alcohol teams. However, people who experience mental distress are at a significantly higher risk of experiencing addiction, and vice versa. The research shows that the best way to solve problems of mental health are through using medical intervention, psychological intervention and practical intervention. The more successful interventions in addiction also use this model.

I agree that people have the power to make decisions. Ant chose to drive that car. What happened afterwards was his fault. However, the reason it is important to discuss what led to that decision, is that people can try and prevent it from being made. I totally reject the idea that people have excuses made for them based on their childhood or whatever. When was the last time a murderer was released because they were abused as a child? It just doesn't happen. Having empathy for people and trying to understand why they made a bad decision, is not the same as excusing it.

And finally, on the joke. I think Ant would have probably laughed at it. He was self-depreciating about his experiences during I'm a Celeb, and I suspect he'll do the exact same thing if/when he comes back this time. I think the reason people are being so sensitive about this is because they like Ant, not because they care about addiction. You don't see this sadness when Gazza relapses, or when Amy Winehouse died.

Double post ! bsastard talk talk connection

horden · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:14 am

Yubep wrote:

Kolley Kibber wrote:

There's a lot of people on this post who seemingly haven't suffered from mental health issues, and great for you that you haven't. I hope it stays that way.

As someone who has (and still is in a way as it is an ongoing battle) dealt with some problems, I can very well understand how alcohol and/or drugs can be used as a crutch. When you're at your lowest, you would do anything to make yourself feel good for a while. The second comment is utter bollocks. I have a good job, great family and I should count myself lucky. Yet all of the money in the world and all the love of my family didn't make me feel any better when I was really struggling.

Very open n honest kolly.

My dad had depression in the 70s. 80s. 90s. 00s. Undiagnosed. Would spend long periods in bed. Called lazy by everyone. Outwardly sociable n bottled it up. Had a breakdown in 2007. Had about 4/5 periods in Sandwell park since and probably will again.

1 in 4 people live with mental health problems but because people can’t see it and people can hide it/live with it its ignored.

Ants messed up by drink driving n he deserves full punishment for that. Should never get in a car under the influence.

I really hope he gets the help he needs in rehab n comes through this.

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Respect to you both for your honesty. This thread could plunge me into depression. If I was a recruiter looking in, I know who I would employ. Some heartless , ill informed people out there.

paulus the woodgnome and a side salad · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:29 am

I'm addicted to following a flagging football team, I can't plan anything different for every other Saturday, I try to walk past the ground (when open) but always find myself being drawn in, I miss family events such as weddings to attend games, cancel important appointments because they clash with radio commentaries, have a lot of blue coloured things such as car, clothes, front door, I even like blue jokes....as long as they're not too blue, like Blue Monday, have blue eyes, hate Deacon Blue, remember Barry Blue, watch Blue Planet/Peter...... bbolt

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 19845

if it had been an ordinary man in the street drinking and driving with known mental health issues t would not of got more than a couple of lines in a local paper and still little help for em. in this so called celebraty day and age with all the fans fawning over em the help he will get will be beyond what anyone of us could imagine. everyone is born equal but thats where it all ends.

qwerty keyboard · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:38 pm

Ant and Dec are very successful and the media think because they built them up they can smash them down.

Double Figures · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:47 am **Posts:** 845

What has he been diagnosed with exactly which should excuse his behaviour? Give him six months make an example of him. He could afford a driver never mind a taxi. He’s lucky a bairn never run out in front of him. When he comes out he will get all the help in the world and if he has issues I hope he gets sorted and that he helps others and not just by giving out seats to Florida in his daft arsed tv programme. It’s nowhere near as good as X factor anyway.

Double Figures · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:47 am **Posts:** 845

When did I say that? I said he had enough money to pay a driver or get a taxi when he got nicked. I don’t care how much the priory clinic is. Six months cold turkey in the nick is at the tax payers expense, not his. If they hurry up he can come out just before Christmas and tell everyone how bad it was for the don’t drink and drive campaign. Otherwise I wish him no ill. I wasn’t aiming to disagree with what you were saying. You need to leave the caps lock alone. Banging on like that. Read my post again. I never liked that Jacko fella. Bit weird. What do you reckon could have helped him? Castration/ lobotomy? Sure fire crackpot. You missed Elvis off there too.

Twilight Zone · **Joined:** Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1428

Snowy wrote:

There's plenty expressing their sympathy or him. Just another drink driver to me.
Am I the only person baffled by their popularity and find them as funny as a land mine....?

No I cannot stand the talentless tw@ts

Double standards

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