The EU debate on the box last night.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

For those wanting to remain in the EU having to listen to that thick bitch must have been a nightmare.

Where the fuck did they drag her from. The nlond one. Thick as mince.

Anyone watching that wgo is still in doubt will defo vote leave now.

She couldnt string a coherent sentence together.

Splod · **Posted:** Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:48 am

Which one Eagle or Rudd? Probably both to be honest.

Its normal tactics to go for the man and not the ball when you're losing the argument and the attacks on Boris looked very much like that. The leave campaign have no answer to the immigration question and that could prove pivotal.

poolie · **Joined:** Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:31 pm **Posts:** 881

Whats happening is very simple in a Democracy you are supposed to be given 2 sides to the argument and then you make a Decision, how ever because Scumbag Cameron thinks only he is right he has not given a Positive Argument for both sides just the one he believes in. So along come the leave Campaign they are only telling you what the Options are they are not the Government all they can give you is an Idea of an Alternative weather you accept the alternative is up to you.

When it comes to Immigration the Remain can just not tell the Truth because the Simple Fact is we have open Borders with the EU and they have said repeatedly this is not open for Reform or Discussion so Basically its comes down to you Accept it or you dont and because this Issue concerns alot of people weather you Agree or Disagree with Immigration you Basically do not have any say on the matter and neither does your Government. So it comes down to June 23 you either Vote for it to Continue and you put up and shut up or you Vote to leave the EU because the reality is that is your only Option if this is your main Concern

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER · **Joined:** Sat May 19, 2007 11:00 am **Posts:** 20758

i nearly died from lack of breath reading it.

Yubep · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:35 pm **Posts:** 25266

I managed 2 sentences

WestParkPoolie · **Posted:** Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:33 pm

For those who want to Leave, which is the most important reason for doing so - Immigration or the economy?

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

I suspect its immigration. And only immigration.

Economy wise nobody knows what will happen. So leaving leaves us all at risk.

But I dont think some care as long as England is for englishmen again.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

Angela Eagle. Thats her. Thick as mince.

There are england fans fighting for their country on the beaches of Marseilles now, that could string sentences together better than she did last night.

People actually vote for her?

grabec · **Joined:** Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:45 am **Posts:** 830

Wouldn't it be great if somehow a bunch of electable politicians could emerge, who had intelligent, workable and imaginative ideas for how to make life better for lots and lots of people. And to work out the details of how to make the ideas work BEFORE implementing them as laws. It doesn't seem all that much to ask, and yet......

offshorepoolie · **Joined:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:32 pm **Posts:** 6011

How great it is to live in a country where thick people are interested in politics ..

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

offshorepoolie wrote:

How great it is to live in a country where thick people are interested in politics ..

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Most countries have politicians.

Splod · **Posted:** Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 pm

Many of our politicians are so defeatist, thinking that nothing positive can ever be achieved in international negotiations. We need to trade with Europe and Europe needs to trade with us. Why is a bilateral negotiated trade deal with the rest of the EU impossible? We are the fifth largest economy in the world so I don't buy into the view that we will have to roll over and accept whatever the EU might offer, if they can be arsed to deal with us.

Bramstein · **Joined:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:49 pm **Posts:** 1526

I didn't watch the debate but I got the gist of it and what had been said this morning on the news though.

I agree with the idea that Johnson is primarily doing this because he wants Cameron's job. Doing things for the greater good is not something that's generally been associated with Boris Johnson. Nakedly careerist is much closer to most politicians opinion of the man!

grabec · **Joined:** Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:45 am **Posts:** 830

Bramstein wrote:

I Nakedly careerist is much closer to most politicians opinion of the man!

Oh God, I feel ill now. The idea of Boris Johnson naked is almost too much to contemplate

Bramstein · **Joined:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:49 pm **Posts:** 1526

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:07 pm

Bramstein wrote:

I agree with the idea that Johnson is primarily doing this because he wants Cameron's job.

The whole reason for the referendum is party politics. Conservatives are worried about losing seats because of UKIP. Conservatives promise referendum to win over the UKIPers and thereby get a five year stay.
And I'm not implying in any way whatsoever that the other (silent) Hobson's choice party is any less interested in self-perpetuation.

How can a country rise above such mediocrity? Surely there must be a way.

grabec · **Joined:** Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:45 am **Posts:** 830

You see, feudalism wasn't so bad after all. You used to be easily able get rid of a king or a few aristocrats just by assembling a small gang of yeomen with sticks and catapults. Then you could demand your rights.

Democracy has inbuilt and insurmountable flaws. For one thing, it encourages the view that the population can affect government. The population votes, thinking this gives them a voice, and then spends the time until the next election wondering what went wrong. Meanwhile everyone passively watches the rich amass more and more benefits and society become less and less fair.

Bramstein · **Joined:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:49 pm **Posts:** 1526

Isn't the rich getting richer more of a problem with capitalism, though?

I completely agree democracy has in built and insurmountable flaws but surely that's the same for any form of government? Horrendously more so in the case of some.

Splod · **Posted:** Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:53 pm

Chip Fireball wrote:

If we are the 5th largest economy in the world I would have thought it was patently obvious to anyone but the terminally fucking thick that 40 odd year of being part of Europe has actually been rather good for this country.

That 40 years covers the EU8, the EU12 and the EU28? It also covers pre and post Maastrict and Lisbon treaties. Has Europe over the past 40 years been a good thing or not? On balance probably good but has it grown too far, has it outlived its usefulness, is it still fit for purpose, do we share the vision with other European states over open borders, subsidiarity, democracy, the euro? Its the next 40 years that's up for decision in the referendum not the last 40 years.

grabec · **Joined:** Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:45 am **Posts:** 830

@Bramstein.
I agree it's all a bit hopeless. I don't myself hold out much hope of a form of government ever being established, which would run on a 'greatest good for the greatest number' principle, and not simply be for the few who've managed to get their needs (or rather, their wants) institutionalised.

offshorepoolie · **Joined:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:32 pm **Posts:** 6011

And after all of this the Government can still change its mind and refuse to rake any notice of the result

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Bramstein · **Joined:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:49 pm **Posts:** 1526

Chip Fireball wrote:

Splod wrote:

Chip Fireball wrote:

If we are the 5th largest economy in the world I would have thought it was patently obvious to anyone but the terminally fucking thick that 40 odd year of being part of Europe has actually been rather good for this country.

That 40 years covers the EU8, the EU12 and the EU28? It also covers pre and post Maastrict and Lisbon treaties. Has Europe over the past 40 years been a good thing or not? On balance probably good but has it grown too far, has it outlived its usefulness, is it still fit for purpose, do we share the vision with other European states over open borders, subsidiarity, democracy, the euro? Its the next 40 years that's up for decision in the referendum not the last 40 years.

I'm sorry but you have already completely defeated your own argument. And that's before you throw in stuff like the Euro, which last time I looked hadn't replaced the pound here.

If, as you say, a tiny fucking island, with an indigenous population that has it's fair share of lazy fuckers, is currently the 5th largest economy in the world , why in the name of fucking Christ would you want to change that ? What are you hoping for best case scenario if we were out of the EU? That we move up to 4th ?

Hard working people want to come here because its a good country, with a Government that rarely ventures far from the middle ground, which has a reputation for being tolerant.

But yeah lets risk all that, plus the potential for financial meltdown that almost every fucker with a business brain has said will happen if we vote out, because a few fucking rednecks at both ends of the political spectrum think its a good idea.

Even if by some unfathomable chance the country did vote Out is anyone daft enough to think it would happen ? Even by conservatives estimates it would take 3 years to ratify, who is going to run the country in the meantime, because the current mob wouldn't be in any position to do so.

Bramstein likes this.

horden · **Posted:** Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:36 pm

Chip Fireball wrote:

I'm sure our gaff , like most of the biggest companies in the country, wouldn't be fetching speakers in from outside the company to give talks to staff on the dangers of voting Out, if they didn't think it had serious financial implications for the economy and jobs.

We had a bloke in from LSE last week who was a Government Adviser, and while I find this whole bloody charade farcical, what he said was quite sobering, especially for folk like me that have big chunks of cash tied up in the stock market.

Or is it they ! not the man on the street, who have much to lose?. Lets face it, bringing out those who normally sit in ivory towers, to quell unrest has been going on for hundreds of years.

Splod · **Posted:** Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:39 pm

Perhaps we are the fifth largest economy despite the EU not because of it.

Those clever chaps your company has called in to brainwash you - did they argue against joining the euro, did they forecast the financial crash of 2008. No, I thought not.

Splod · **Posted:** Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:50 pm

Businesses trade in whatever environment they are placed and exploit whatever system they are in. Businesses will continue post 23 June irrespective of the way the vote goes. I simply don't buy into the Armageddon scenario painted by the remain campaign.We probably agree on quite a lot. The EU isn't perfect and no politicians can be trusted as far as you throw them. We've just come to different conclusion.

The Fat Man · **Joined:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:03 pm **Posts:** 2107

horden wrote:

Chip Fireball wrote:

I'm sure our gaff , like most of the biggest companies in the country, wouldn't be fetching speakers in from outside the company to give talks to staff on the dangers of voting Out, if they didn't think it had serious financial implications for the economy and jobs.

We had a bloke in from LSE last week who was a Government Adviser, and while I find this whole bloody charade farcical, what he said was quite sobering, especially for folk like me that have big chunks of cash tied up in the stock market.

Or is it they ! not the man on the street, who have much to lose?. Lets face it, bringing out those who normally sit in ivory towers, to quell unrest has been going on for hundreds of years.

Academia can no longer be described as an ivory tower. Whole load of compulsory redundancies announced at my place, along with the closure of a number of departments. We defo live in the real world.

The Fat Man · **Joined:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:03 pm **Posts:** 2107

Splod wrote:

Businesses trade in whatever environment they are placed and exploit whatever system they are in. Businesses will continue post 23 June irrespective of the way the vote goes. I simply don't buy into the Armageddon scenario painted by the remain campaign.We probably agree on quite a lot. The EU isn't perfect and no politicians can be trusted as far as you throw them. We've just come to different conclusion.

Business continued post 2008 and the 'financial crisis', but it's been shit for almost everyone else.

The EU debate on the box last night.

Gadgies online