Does anyone know when the first bookie in Hartlepool opened? And was it John Joyce?

Only went in John Joyce once, believe it was near Hartlepool Supporters club near where the Odd Cod and that is now.

Walked in, £50 on Prokofiev at 8/1 to win. Watched it romp home without breaking sweat after being told to get my Xmas money from it and never went in again. Had to ask how to write the slip out an all and declined the advice to take it each way.

Good for you, Tree. How long ago was that?

I was driving my shitty Peageot 106 so must have been about 2002-2004 I reckon.

Didn't there used to be one next to Richies social club?

The beetroot faced badge kisser had his own club in the town???

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JJ had a one up king oswy shops when i was a lad.

Thanks for that, chip. Early 60s is what I'd have guessed.

My granddad used to be a bookie, too, but much earlier, and didn't have a shop. Apparently he used to drive round to courses with a horse and cart. Illegally, probably.

" the disadvantage was that some of them would leg it as soon as the race started and trouser all the cash."

I've read some hilarious stories about this sort of thing ......PGWodehouse and Damon Runyan. Crime had a certain innocence in those days.

You clearly ought to write a book about all this!

Yeah before 1961 it was street corner betting. My old man and his mates went to a Sunderland game just before it was legalised. Their bet came up, winnings the equivalent of £1000 each now. The older lad who was with them had got to the bookie first and got the money. They tried to head him off in one of the pubs, but everytime they got there he had moved on to the next one. Anyway at work on the Monday, word was sent down the pit that there was something waiting for my dad when he reached the surface. His mate had left his cut of the bet with the winding engine man. My dad on collecting it then went and had a week on the sick as did most of his mates I believe.

Yeah before 1961 it was street corner betting. My old man and his mates went to a Sunderland game just before it was legalised. Their bet came up, winnings the equivalent of £1000 each now. The older lad who was with them had got to the bookie first and got the money. They tried to head him off in one of the pubs, but everytime they got there he had moved on to the next one. Anyway at work on the Monday, word was sent down the pit that there was something waiting for my dad when he reached the surface. His mate had left his cut of the bet with the winding engine man. My dad on collecting it then went and had a week on the sick as did most of his mates I believe.

My gran had a job collecting bets for a Mr.Rookes who later had several betting shops in the Collieries around the 60's. Not sure whether he had any in the 'Pool' though.

One of my uncles Walter Auton ran one for many years, I think he ran one of Joyce's but may have had one of his own at some point too.

Remember One Behind The Queens Hotel In West View In Early 70's, Not Sure Who Owned It

There Was One Near The Brus Arch In Mid 70's

I worked Joyces for a year or so, everywhere from Golden Flatts to Horden. Busiest shop I worked was Blackhall, bleedin non-stop mental every Saturday. Worked in Richies with Joan G quite a lot as I was local, still see her on TV when the players come out of the tunnel.

[quote="Chip Fireball"]1961 they were legalised, not sure how quickly after that they started sprouting up.

I would imagine the local on course bookmakers would have been the first to open shops in the area. John Joyce would have been the first in the town at a guess, my grandfather, Johnny Ridley, had a few in the collieries, a couple of which still trade. Gus Carter had a fair few in the locality as well ( not sure where the Gus Carter name originated as the firm was owned by a guy called Brian Trewhitt ) north of the town, think Reg Boyle had at least one shop in Norton.

There was another bookmaker in the town at the time, guy by the name of Bob Pailor, lived up the top of Elwick Road. He used to bet at Hartlepool dogs, but dont think he had a shop.

Ohters that bet at the dogs included Billy Day from the Boro ( wouldnt take a decent bet so cant imagine he had shops ) who I think used to play for the Boro at one point, and Dennis ( ? ) Sweeney from Stockton.

Hard to believe but back in the day a lot of money would get bet at Hartlepool dogs. Me grandad and Joycey both used to stand there and they were probably the 2 biggest on course bookies in the North East at the time.[/


Bob Pailor was my great grandad, im sure had a shop in Church street R Pailor and Son with my Grandad also Bob ( he lived Wooler road) but I'm not sure what year it opened or closed. After my great grandad retired my grandad worked the local dog tracks and race meets and eventually worked for your grandad part time at his shotton branch. I used to go with my dad to pick him up from Shotton on a Saturday when he finished work.

Rob109 - there were premises in church street and Albert terrace wherever that is, may have just been a house the latter. Bob Pailor the bookie was the ex Newcastle, west Brom and west Hartlepool forward. Also was assistant manager of Pools in 1919, a director for a while and also involved with the cricket club and rovers rugby. Your grandad had trials for pools too. Following the line down, if I am right is your dad is the man who 'brought salmon back to the tees', MBE holder and all round top environmentalist?

Yes Chip, he was a real gentleman and nice of you to say so.

Katcha- Yes You are correct with all the above Bob Pailor MBE is my dad. According to google Albert Terrace was a road off Church Street than ran across to the docks, the train tracks now cross it.

Many thanks for all the information, people. Some great stories!

I have a green bookies pen at home thats been there for donkeys years. Probably a John Joyce pen, im presuming they were green.

A pen? That sounds very modern. There were no pens when I worked at JJ in the mid 70s!

I worked at the Blakelock Avenue shop mostly, where there were some very colourful characters, including an older man who was perfectly peaceable but who always had trouble keeping upright because of persistent inebriation.

My mum had literally dozens of relatives, many of them whom I didn't know from Adam. Turned out this old guy was a of relation of hers. Don't know how he recognised me but he was always very affable and kept explaining in slurred tones to other punters how I was his niece. They all thought it was hilarious for some reason.

I use to work with a girl called Beryl from Blackhall. Often wonder what happened to her as we got on really well.

I used to work in various John Joyce shops around Teesside back in the day. He had over a dozen shops in the town I reckon as well as a few in Billingham, Norton, Blackhall etc. I was always intrigued by the bookies near the Burn Valley (bout halfway up Blakelock Road). Was it Jack Pinkney or something? He was quite mysterious as can't recall him having any other shops. Never actually went in there as it was before my time and is now a beauty salon I think. Most notorious punter back in the dizzle was former Commonwealth cruiserweight champion Stewie Lithgo. I once saw him throw a hot pie into the face of an old man cheering on a 12/1 winner as his 6/5 fancy (he'd had £500 on it) began going backwards with two furlongs left. Was Python-esque.

Oooh il have a look when I get home, cant remember seeing any writing.

Do you have any photos of your collection?

Jack Pinkney rings a bell. The shop could have belonged to him at the start, but it was John Joyce's by the time I started working there.

Now then Rob, how's the till system going these days?

Yes, I've got a couple kicking about somewhere. Green with a black end bit that screws on and off.

Which was the best for pulling women?

Equating giving up your pen collection with giving up bookies sounds like one of those RDLaing relationship conversations. Whole lifetimes can be spent repeating this sort of thing.
"Why didn't you go shopping as you said you would. Now we have nothing for tea."

"But didn't I bring you flowers for your birthday? I always put everything into this relationship, everything."

Just realised the above could be misunderstood as an insult......the thing I quoted is completely different from his psychiatric stuff.