As a lot of people expected, the Super hospital plan has been axed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10341015.stm

Aye.

Not just suspended or put on hold but axed completely.

No surprise whatsoever.

The question now is what happens next?

Do we retain services at Hartlepool or does that still close and we get stuck with the aging and not fit for purpose monstrosity at North Tees?

I think Hartlepool is just going to end up with the current downgraded General Hospital and having to go to the current North Tees set up for most things.

Iain Wright will no doubt blame the current coalition government, but it was his government and Prime Minister that broke promises about not closing the hospital, to get him elected. Then they finally gave the go-ahead far too late. I am sure he will make sure there are decent bus services...

And don't go blaming the current Government....we didn't want it anyway!!!!

Yes but most of the country did!!
Its hardly Ian Wrights fault. You should be looking a bit nearer to home than westminster for where most of the problems lie in this town.

Watch it!! Your posts will get deleted

I wouldn't think most of the country would have offered an opinion one way or the other on the hospital situation of the North East of England

After the initial worry of services being moved to North Tees the announcement that we would be getting a brand new all singing all dancing state of the art hospital would have been a price worth paying given it would have attracted some of the most talent doctors and nurses. It was due to have lifts that you could virtually do operations in they are so well equiped.

Anyway he questions now are what services will definately stay at Hartlepool and North Tees or will they go to James Cook or elsewhere? Will they get the appropriate levels of staff? Will the NHS/local councils provide better public transport? Will Hartlepool be upgraded? Will we get more centres like the new one on Park Road?

Of course the biggest immidiate impact will be on the local economy with many a Hartlepool firm and worker wanting a share of that £450m. Then there is the effect on the publics long term health in an area will massive health problems already.

As for Iain Wright he played the game of wanting local services but saw the economic reality and medical need for a new hospital. At end of the day it's Tory Toff Cameron and his fag Clegg that have crapped on Hartlepool and the North East and I don't will be the last time.

I thought he'd resigned one of his postions within Government in protest at the closure of the hospital?

Why should he have resigned
Maybe the money is available but could be spent on better things......like the banks
And as for waffling on ur a foooking master at that
Now foook off

Your last statement is laughable. Even more laughable would be if you actually believed it.

Just because they announced immediately prior to the election that they'd be funding a new hospital doesn't mean that they actually would.

Five years previously they announced just before an election that Hartlepool General wouldn't close in favour of a new out of town hospital. Just because you want to do a bit of Tory bashing you can't erase facts from history just to suit you!

Wow.

You genuinely believe that the Labour party don't tell lies.

Mr Firebollocks, all political parties tell lies I'm afraid. It's not right, it's not big and it's not clever but it's what they do.

In this instance however as far as I'm aware it's Labour who've told the lies and not the evil Tory party who never made any promises about either not closing Hartlepool General or providing a new build hospital.

Firstly can anyone remember who caused the deficit (ie who the fook the labourgovernment lent the dosh too) I though it was the banks or was that another labour party deception???

Yes the tories have just decided to leave the other one in limbo and sack off the super hospital.. and if you've not got medical insurance you can look forward to 18 months wait for "non urgent" a la 1980's ..

Yes nice people these tories...If you're a rich banker that is....

Prescott was right the "posh" boys have got together after all!

They would of built the hospital


hth

In addition the Sheffield Forgemasters have been fooked over, why?

Anyone with a brain in their heed can see that most countries are now leaning towards nuclear power station, the knock on effect of turning this particular project is massive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10341015.stm


And cutting aid to get under 21 back to work, great idea

Not to worry though, your kid won't have decent school to go to, you may have to take 2nd rate hospital care and get no working tax credits, which aren't used by doley plebs, but you might get a penny of your income tax in five years

Heard today that they are using part of the money to fund the metro upgrade up north im thinking we have been robbed by the tyne and wear brigade

They might have built the hospital. We'll never know for sure.

With regards the loan to the forge place I agree. Totally baffled by them pulling the plug on that one with the info that's been put around as it appears they'd have got that cash back anyway due to the nature of it being a loan. Only logical explanation was that it was a bit iffy whether or not it'd ever be paid back.

The puzzling thing is why can some of you not see that the country couldn't afford all of the stuff that Labour was promising or even providing? That staggers me that seemingly intelligent folk think that they could just go on spending as they were without the income to back it up.

And I don't get any tax credits so they can scrap them for me like.

You can always tell when Fireballs is losing an argument, he avoids answering the points raised by either ignoring them or trying to change the subject.

I think that I can remember, it wasn't that long ago. The deficit was caused by the Government of the day spending money that they didn't actually have on things like major projects, quangos, excessive benefits, tax breaks for lesbian mothers and their ilk and silly committees to discuss ethnic carnivals.

Hope that helps jog your memory a little.

Three points Mr F.

One, employee contributions to NI are rising in spite of your repeated claims to the contrary.

Two, they're not "my lot".

Three, as I've said previously and have no shame in admitting my first priority is my family and looking after them before worrying about everybody else. If that comes over as me, me, me then so be it.

Have to agree with that point, I have lost valuable time in my life I could have spent better trying to please to many people, I look after number one / family / mates now and my life hasnt been better.

A new Hospital isn't really essential though they could have committed less than half the estimated £450,000,000 and made the 2 existing ones better than they are.

A few people will have been planning to make an awful lot of money from that development, that opportunity has now gone most of those people are already rich so the Tories have technically screwed them over as well as us poor people.

Assuming that the current services stay as they are will we really be much worse of than most of the UK? Hartlepool has been in a unique position for a number of years having a hospital a maximum 20 minutes drive from its full population, yes false promises were made and things were said for politcial gain that shouldn't have been but no amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth will change it.

The loan promised by the Liebour Government to the Steel works in Sheffield was a joke in my opinion, a cynical ploy to buy votes and to potentially unseat Clegg. If I was wanting to expand a business and needed investment I would need to either provide capital myself, go and find a bank that thinks it a safe risk or find a private investor willing to risk his cash. So if the loan was such a sure thing then it shouldn't have been pulled, and regardless of what I think of the Tories I doubt that they are stupid enough to have pulled a good investment.

Spending millons on two hospitals over thirty years old isn't viable

The only cynical thing about the forgemasters loan is the fact the current lot have withdrawn the offer

No shame in admitting your family comes first, but one day you MAY need someone outside your family to help, the social services, the NHS, the DSS

Never think the unthinkable will happen, it might, I never thought I'd get ill but I did and the NHS have been 100% spot on and the framework around that as well, such as aftercare and support

PS

You & your missus must pull in a fair wack if you aren't getting family tax credits

NHS is a national treasure and must be cherished.

It puzzles me where all these situations are coming from where people have to decide to put their families before everyone else. I can think of one or two....if there were a house fire, for example, and I could save one person, it would definitely be the bairn. Off hand, there don't seem to be many others.

Or is it really that some people want, for their families, far more than they need, and don't care whether or not others have enough to live on, in the process??

Here's another example for you then Ms G.

A choice between me taking more of my wages home to spend buying things for my wife and my boy or paying more in tax so that the folk who choose to live on benefits and don't want a job can have a big telly, twenty fags a day, three nights out a week and two or three holidays a year and I know which is more important to me.

It's often said that the people who scrounge most from tax payers are those at the top end of the scale, and that false benefit claiming pales by comparison

However, say the government has got off its arse and made it impossible for anyone to claim benefits unless they're really needed.
In this new scenario, tax is used for purposes which will benefit the public as a whole or which will help the many disabled, vulnerable, abused or just unlucky people who exist. Do you vote for a personal tax reduction or not?

Going a little off topic here but,

Genuine question Mr Fireball,

If you were in a position to be earning millions per year and could either avoid tax or give 50% of it to HM Government to spend however they liked would you feel the same way?


I can honestly say that I would do everything possible to avoid taxes, that is not to say I would have an I'm alright everyone else can piss off attitude but if I were to help those less fortunate I would want to direct the money from a Charitable trust and not from dropping it all on tax.

I'll answer that on behalf of CF, at least in the way I think he would answer it, if I was earning millions a year I would quite happily pay 50% of it to the country I'm living in, and which has given me the education and know how to generate that wealth. Because I would still be left with more than enough money for my own well being, and I would be contributing to Mr Cameron's 'Big Society'.

As I've said before, I think that benefits for things like genuine disability and pensions and the like are too low and personally I wouldn't mind paying the same or even slightly more in tax if I knew that it was going towards righting things like that. The current level of or any increase in tax when we all know a lot of it is going to people either fiddling or just too damn lazy to work warms the proverbial urine.

Right. But my point is that the issue isn't whether or not to put your family first, is it? That's just rhetoric. Your family would still do very nicely, probably, if your tax rate rose quite a lot and the money raised was diverted to public services and to those who need support.

I think the idea of benefit scroungers is very convenient to a lot of people. Of course scroungers exist and of course they should work if they're able to and there are jobs available. But as has been said, the real problem lies in high level tax avoidance/evasion. It's very convenient for these high level leeches to have attention focussed on a few benefit scroungers, and it's very convenient also for people to use the benefit scroungers alibi to say they aren't voting to pay more tax, to support people who need supporting.
Why don't people start targetting bankers, the idle rich and similar...then we might get somewhere?

I think the whole arguement comes down to your feelings towards the state. I would willingly pay more taxes to the state to assist public spending, because thats how I think democracy works - those who have help out those who have not. Yup, there will be those that take the pi$$, but thats life. Doesnt mean you stop the basis of an excellent welfare system because some think that too many are at it. Benefit fraud, whilst large and needing addressing, pales into insignificance when compared to large scale corporate and individual tax avoidance.

I would vote for any party that advocated raising taxes to improve the society in which we all live - better healthcare, better infrastructure etc.

I would vote for any party that advocated spending the same resources challanging and prosecuting tax avoidance as it does benefit fraud.

Our Tory, and now Liberal, brethern would rather the state buggered off and it was left to individuals to sort out their own $hit with the minimal of state interference. Its just a difference of opinion and ideology and its a shame that the present governemnt want to claim that deficit reduction is crucial to our economic welfare.

It isnt, indeed there is a real arguement that increased public spending would aid the economy and generate growth. The cuts are mainly ideology based, and there can be little arguement with them as they were voted in in a democratic mandate. I only hope I am around long enough for the cyclical nature of politcs to return the current ideology to the anals of history and that society hasnt been twisted and bent beyond repair by that time.

The sentiment is admirable. Unfortunately the reality is different. In an ideal world what you say would be fine but we have watched our personal freedoms being slowly eroded for the last 13 years. The state should look after the old, the young, the poor, the sick and the unemployed, especially those who want to work. That is a given. That is what the majority of Labour voters want. What we got was increased surveillance of ordinary people (check out the stats), snooping councils putting microchips in bins, jobs for the boys in useless quangos, illegal wars, cash for honours, the sheer hypocrisy of attacking benefit cheats whilst all the time milking the system for all it's worth (all parties guilty), Public Sector Executives being paid superstar salaries to suppposedly compete with the private sector, the "blind eye" turned to the banks and big business, the un-checked immigration, ID cards, CCTV which catches people dropping litter but fails miserably with any real crime, ridiculous health & safety rules, the end of automatic trial by jury, the end of the right to remain silent, the police using anti-terror laws to stop and search ordinary people..... The list is endless. Are the new lot any better? I've no idea, but they can't be any worse and this is from an ex Labour voter.

Trouble is that theres not enough people who agree with that view, admirable as it may be. Paddy ashdown proposed precisely that and his party were panned in the election.

No arguments at all there Norge, at no point would I offer up New Labour as a beacon of light. They behaved in some ways admirably, ie increased NHS spending, but otherwise behaved in the manner in which you kinda thought they would ie Tory Lite. CCTV, ID cards and a general continued toddieing (?) to the City are all bollox to name a few.

The point I was trying to make is that this new government will behave in an manner driven by an ideology that is, IMO, not good for a growth in decent society. Slashing public spending will appease Daily Mail readers and their kin but will it really benefit us all in the long run? If deficit reduction is really the main thrust, increase personal taxation and nail tax avoidance over say a 3 or 5 year programme - that will really help. Our National Debt whilst huge is mainly long term debt and for the most bond-derived. This type of debt is the most serviceable and thereby manageable - its huge but hey ho we are a big bleedin country! Closing a hospital here and there, not loaning ForgeMasters money will make good headlines and punish the North, but that's about it.

My main gripe would be Clegg - W.T.F. is he doing? He heads a party that had some principles that he has just sold for a sniff of power. That's them doomed into the elective desert for years to come and I am genuinely surprised he took them there.

I aspire to assist ;)

Very true.

The problem with Clegg is he is yet another pretty boy career politician. Blair was the first, The Tories were slow to catch on but finally picked Cameron. The Libs, who always had decent leaders, saw how well this worked and went down the same route. His party are still giddy at actually being in a position of some power after years of being an irrelevance.

Clegg, like Blair and Cameron will leave his principles at the door for power. His party, after the honymoon wears off, will begin to realise that getting into bed with either of the big two will end up with them getting shafted. That's when the fun will start

The Tories will eat them alive, as would Labour.

Probably the moment it dawned on most people that Brown, who was supposed to be the Socialist, wanted power more than anything. Even after leading Labour to it's worst result in a generation, with 70% of voters giving him the message, he was still looking to do a deal with Clegg to keep himself in power. The man has no shame.

Well personally i think that in order to regain some of the money that labour threw about willy-nilly, the government should start once again taxing one of the biggest non-taxable money-spinners in the UK.

Gambling.

Mind you, with you wallopping 50k a year on poker, you might have to knock it on the head if it comes in

You'll pay £5k this month just to enter?

Is this a one off or is it every month?

Are you really paying £60k a year in entry fees for the chance to win about £6k back on top of your entry fees? An estimated 10% return with a high degree of risk?

That sounds silly.

So you're not paying 5 grand to entering the competitions, only effectively 'handing' over the same tenner 500 times a month! How long does each game take? Because it looks like you're winning a quid a game, which isn't too bad if it's 5 minutes, but a lot of work if it takes an hour. I presume it's not the latter, because you would hardly have time to sleep!