dunno if any of you saw this post on the Vital Hartlepool message board by 'Jackystache' a few weeks ago......


Dear Ken,

Im struggling to understand why you are staying so quiet,in a time of much discontent.
A time when the man you placed in charge has lost virtually all faith of the (non season ticket holding) paying public.
- last night v gillingham there was approx 300 paying hartlepool fans (at most) if you discount the season ticket holders,away fans and possibly free tickets to schools etc.

Im struggling to understand,why the fans that do bother to attend,have been allowed to be roundly criticised by the man in charge-is this being filtered down by yourself? is it good business sense to lambast the paying public?

Im struggling to understand where hartlepool united go from this point-the crowd attendances are at their worst for 10 years,the apathy aimed towards the club from fans is at its lowest since the dark days of the mid nineties-and I have witnessed many a dark day in my time-far more despondent than the relegation season of 2006.

And further more,I believe it could be vastly improved.

I will not accept comments aimed towards fans from the DOS that 'some fans believe we should be world beaters,or that some think jose mourinho will just walk in and turn us into a champions league side' -those comments are distasteful,and are far far removed from the realistic views of the majority of fans.

I do not believe the discontent lies at money being spent by the club,the recession or anything else-the fans know we dont have money,we know times have been hard of late- it has NOTHING to do with that.

And further more,the fans aims are realistic-all we wish is to have hope-hope we can survive on a shoestring,hope we can compete on a shoestring,hope of being POSITIVE,and always aiming for better.

That is all we wish.

Mr Hodcroft,you have oft had poor relations with the fans,despite some of the sterling work that has been produced.

I ask you this,in a time when the club,in certain ways has tried building bridges with fans,via the schools/community type of schemes etc-do you stay quiet,aloof,and do nothing to entice your paying customers back to the vic.We are in crisis in more ways than one-and if you think I mean a change of DOS/manager will be enough to placate the fans-no,it requires a bit more than just that.

Communication,and listening to the paying customer is what is required- You have lost a lot of paying customers,who are not going to be enticed back that easily-time to have a re think,and build bridges.

alienating the paying customer-very bad business strategy any which way you look at it.

well here is an update...




I was invited to the club last week to discuss the finer points of my recent criticisms of the club,in my letter to the club and the mail.

It was an invitation that was unexpected,welcome and one that I was not going to miss.
I spent an hour and a half in the company of the chief exec,who took time out of his busy schedule (I know this cos his phone didnt stop ringing!),who ignored the calls to instead talk to me.
It was gesture that was appreciated.

there is a lot I learnt,and quite a bit that I put forward in regards to the state of the club,and what needs to be improved in regards to the views on the terrraces.

so much detail I could go into,but would take me all day long.

the main things I took away with me though are these-

1,the club is now,more than ever aware that the fans are disappearing,and are taking on board the criticisms-and (hopefully)are starting to take them seriously.KH is aware of the criticsms and is being advised to break down barriers between the club and fans (the problem stems that it is run as a business-its what he does well,of course). Whether or not the PR between him and the fans does improve or not though depends on him loosening his barriers,and acting on some of the things the fans are telling him.

2.the club is in very good shape off the pitch-we are NOT reliant on what money comes through the gates to keeping the club afloat (while IOR are in charge of course),and are in no immediate danger of doing a darlo,portsmouth etc.

3.the ground purchase-the club are confident it will happen-and plans are afoot to redevelop the vic and surrounding arears-a 3500 seater 2 tier stand is agreed to replace the rink end,and the back of the rink end,going all the way through to and including the regeneration of millhouse leisure centre(i believe) is in the pipeline-which will be funded by grants (sport england or something similar?)-and will be community centred that will be a joint venture between club and council-costing both only a fraction of the overall costs-given the H20 project(marina) fell by the wayside,it could be very much to our benefit.

4.the club believe the developments will see us (hopefully and eventually) become a championship club,who can hold their own-the ambition is there,and the ground purchase is very much the key in this.

5.IOR-its not a tax thing,in which they benefit from in owning us-we are 1 of ten companies (i think) owned by IOR-and the reason they continue to own us is simple-they benefit from the prestige of owning an english football league club-they go all around the world,mention football and drop the fact they own us-and it has opened so many doors.

6.KH and IOR after 11 years,still care deeply about the club and the town,and want to be here for a lot longer yet.

Many things were discussed,some i wouldnt print which were said in confidence.
but,some of the stuff I could say,include how danny wilson took a hell of a lot of persuading to join us,and was never going to stay here (commitment to HUFC very much questioned)-which explains KH's appointment of turner-CT was someone who is trusted,and has a genuine affection for this club,someone who isnt likely to embarrass us in the way scotty for example did.

Overall,those are some of the things put to me,and even though there are many things that need doing,ie PR needs improving and KH needs to lower the barriers between him and the fans-I think him and the club are starting to realise this.
I think they do give a damn,this is certainly a transitional and pivotal point in the clubs history and future (the ground purchase HAS to be made surely,if not what happens then?-that question sadly i forgot to ask.)

But,I think they are here for the longer haul yet,and off the pitch in particular things may be quite good.Its the combination of both of course that will make us fans happy.

PR to placate a critical fan? maybe? but RG came across as geniune enough in his concerns,and I will give him the benefit of the doubt.
I think he an KH are listening and taking it on board-as I expressed criticism is a necessary evil to improve things.

Time will tell of course to which way this club goes.

fingers crossed.

During my 10'000 odd posts I have never said anything critical of Russ Green. The reason is that I dealt with him personally when we did the Monkeyhangerz CD and you only have to spend 1 minute with the bloke to realise that he is 100% genuine.

Great post and really good positive stuff.

One question, in the part of the conversation regarding this rink end grandstand, did he mention whether it will be given back to us?

good reading that letter, makes me feel a bit more comfortable with what ior are doing with the club, although i do worry about the current league position and the way results have been going lately, cant help but think league is approaching us

Excellent post.
There can't be many league clubs with the stability pools have in terms of income.
Now let's have this foooking striker and get us away from the trapdoor to the league of death:)

I think Russ Green is a top bloke and is always willing to listen and discuss events at Pools.

However Pools read these boards, so why wait for an individual open letter.

Jackystache makes some very good points and, like the rest of us, is genuinely worried, but haven't all these points and worries been posted on various message board already????

Why rely on a one to one meeting with a fan to get their answers and position across??????

There are various means of communicating to the fans available to Russ and his colleagues.

If they are willing to discuss their plans openly with a perhaps unknown fan, then why can't this information be readily available to the rest of us?????

Well done to Jackystache but come on Pools...............surely you can keep the fans more involved without waiting for individual promptings to do so.

I would also point out that the letter was directed at KH and, once again, an opportunity to communicate personally was side stepped.

Why??????????????

so reading between the lines...

if they are not arsed about gate receipts are they then not bothered what division we are in?

That might explain why turners kept his job for so long.

Everything seems to rest on this ground sale, and it appears the whole world is on pause till then.

Some really good points, maybe an ask Ken or ask Russ section on the official website could be a welcome addition once a month or so...?

This is one of the best threads I have ever seen on the bunker. Cheers for posting it MrB.

I must say that I totally share the opinion of jackystache (prior to his trip around pools) and have the same concerns.

It was good of the club to speak to him (its exactly what the club needs to do right now).

I do feel encouraged by his response but I am slightly concerned that they see Scotty as an 'embarrasment' yet he does not appear to have done any worse than Turner in my eyes! I appreciate that it is good to have a manager who cares for the club but you need a happy medium i.e someone who gives a monkeys but also has some management ability. Turner doesnt and misplaced optimism in him wont get us anywhere, in fact it will just result in us throwing money away on wages and getting nowhere at all.

get rid of Turner and the fans will see IOR actually want us to get success. Put up with him and the opinion of yubep above looks very much believeable - ie that IOR dont care how succesful we are and merely like the thought of owning a football club.

On the pitch, maybe... However behind the scenes perhaps there were things which happened which made his position untenable

As a response to the original post, it's great to see IOR are in this for the long haul and want to get us higher but I'll also echo the comments that it seems that the whole project is on hold till they get the ground. What if they don't?

lets hope they have a plan b.

This 'ground sale', as for as most of us know, has progressed at a virtual snails pace for however many years now, its taking ages, if thats the council, then nowt we can do, but its taking a long bloody time.

Let's just hope we are in league one when all of these changes are going to take place, cos to some they will mean feck all if we are gash on the pitch.

I'm sure IOR are thinking the council MUST see what good it will do for the town and for the further development of the club when they own the ground. Would you want to put an extension on your council house, or wait until you've bought it from them.

Morning everyone,

Im usually on the vitalhartlepool site,and have gone into much more detail on there-if any have any questions i will do my best to answer them on said site.

Cheers,Jackystache

Normally a virgin poster gets greeted with a "fuck off" from me but I will make an exception here!

Far be it for me to be cynical about this BUT...

I'm feeling a little cynical about this.

Some guy who I don't know and who nobody that I know knows has allegedly written a letter to the "secretive" HUFC voicing his concerns and they've invited him down to the club to give him the full lowdown on all of their plans?

Is it just me who is wondering whether or not it's just a way of HUFC unofficially getting some info into the public domain to try and get the supporters on side by supposedly engaging a concerned fan?

Somebody please prove me wrong as I'd love to be able to confidently believe all this stuff.

you're wrong.

a lot of the stuff that he has said is (with all respect to him) known by a lot of pools fans already russ is as solid as he says without needing the need to self publicise himself to keep the hoi polloi happy.

Russ has confided in me, but I've never published what he said because I think it is his place to make certain things known.
I don't know why the club don't publish more information other than that's what they choose not to do. Irritating though it may seem.
Quite a few people have been shown or told of the plans for the ground and IOR's commitment.
I am confident that this fellow has met Russ Green and has been told what he has said he has been told.
After all there aren't any major revelations here, most of it has been posted on various message boards from time to time. It's just that Jackystache is the first one to actually report on a meeting, but he is certainly not the first to have had one.

Just observe the deafening silence from certain quarters, both on this board and into the blue.

The other thing that could happen is that Russ Green might now be told to watch what he says, which would be a pity.

So can anyone just pop into pools for a chat to find out the plans for the future?

I fancy one me