It is certainly a word that doesn't lend itself to anagrams, much.

I think the point of this arguement is that there isn't an even hand.

We've suffered IRA (and all it's subsidiaries and allies) attacks on our own MAINLAND for years, we never advocated the need for troops to flatten whole cities and towns? We fought back piecemeal, running battles in the streets, we never carpet bombed Dubin or used cluster bombs.

The minute it becomes a Muslim state that threatens us, we wade in, flatten entire countries, achieve next to nowt and then complain when people, on the other side of the fence, protest.

As the saying goes:

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

It's all PROPAGANDA, it's always used to great affect in wars and to influence public opinion, some people would do well to recognised when they've been gotten to.

The forces are great for teaching you to believe something that isn't actually the truth.

Any life lost, is a life lost? they're all worth the same!

How many casualties do we need before we wade in on EIRE? They're all terrorists you know, they're hiding terrorists you know, they support terrorists you know!!! Sound familiar?

DLE OFF!!

No, unless you have some knowledge to base that opinion on its worth less than an opinion of someone who has direct experience. For example; what do you think goes through your mind at the point when you suddenly realise that those insects you keep hearing aren't insects at all?

So what knowledge do you base your constant criticism of Humpty Dumpty, or the 400 league matches you have played?

I've watched well over 400 league matches so that gives me the right to comment on how well somebody is performing even if it doesn't entitle me to say that I could do any better.

The knowledge of watching him being responsible for us conceding a goal a game. But then my opinion is worth less than someone who has actually played at full back as a professional.

After I start humping goats and my sister I will claim to know what its like to be a muslim. For now I'll just be happy with remembering when Britain was a land free of suicide bombers.

[quote="Mr Ripper"]I've watched well over 400 league matches so that gives me the right to comment on how well somebody is performing even if it doesn't entitle me to say that I could do any better.[/quote]


But judging by this thread no-one other then a soldier, or ex soldier is allowed to voice their opinion because they have never been in the forces, so therefore MR I shouldn't be able to do the same, because he watches from the side lines

I could be wrong of course......

No, nothing to do with only being a soldier. I would listen to the opinion of someone who has grown up in NI during the 70's or 80's as every bit as valid.

Calm down, you'll drop your Guardian.

I don't care that much about anything .....except of course the bairns. Don't get between me and them or you're dead.

By stating this quote you will never know what its like to be a Muslim you are clearly missing the point of a religion based on peace, and not a million miles away from the Christian faith just simply told by a different teacher. You comments regarding Muslims as a whole is demeaning and derogatory to the faith as a whole and the majority of law abiding follows all over the world.

Stating all Muslims are terrorists is saying that all Christians are members of the KKK. One bad apple certainly has ruined the bunch in your eyes and I think that’s very sad

For the last time, it's got nowt to do with the Catholics, and everything to do with Republicans. One dispute is faith related, a jihad, meaning Holy War, and actively encouraged by some Muslim religious leaders and the other is territorial, the Republicans want to be a part of Eire.

I would have thought you'd have learned something since 1969.

I have it on good authority (ie from people who were born over there) that it has quite a lot to do with Catholics and Protestants. Certainly the ones who've inter-married have reasons to think so.

I didnt say that it was about catholics was mearly replying to a comment made by mr i about muslims.

Honestly Grabby it ain't that simple. The only way religion came into it is that the catholics tended to be Republican whereas the prods were typically unionist. It was always about the state even back when the stickies were formed in Dublin. PIRA were formed out of principles to defend the Republican (mainly Catholic) communities in the late sixties but those principles became more and more watered down as the provos became more and more corrupt. The PIRA were nothing but gangsters from the late seventies onwards. The same can be said for the UDA except they were thick thugs where the IRA leaders were anything but and tended to be quite erudite and sophisticated. Compare for example the likes of Adams / McG and mad dog. These were typical examples of the respective leaders of the two organisations.

The whole era of the 'Troubles' was about one side wanting a united 32 counties of Ireland and the other wanting the six counties to remain part of the UK. Where is the religious aspect of that?

Never be rude to an Arab,
An Israeli or Saudi or Jew.
Never be rude to an Irishman
No matter what you do.

Never poke fun at a nigger,
A spic or a wop or a kraut,
And never poke fun at a....................................................................................

at a what ?

Due to the untimely explosion we will never know.

I agree it's not simple, but all you're really saying is that there are lots of 'realities' going on at once. The hatred evoked in some quarters by 'mixed marriages', isn't just because one spouse wants a united Ireland and the other doesn't, is it? It's because of the religious divide.
There's objective, and then there's what goes on in people's minds.

You won't find many proddies in the IRA but I bet you don't find many who go to church every Sunday either. Their religion is a badge, not a credence or a faith.

It is simple...

Fill Ireland with every disagreeable Paddy, Paki, Wog, puff, lezza, liberal lefty, CND rabble rousers, the Welsh, students, etc. (feel free to add to the list)

What's a liveral lefty? Did you mean a Liverpool lefty, a liberal lefty, a liveried lefty or a rivals lefty?

Well, I'm not sure how far it's ever possible to distinguish between badges and faiths. If the Ayatollah decided tomorrow that the Koran should be interpreted in a totally different way, wouldn't most of his 'subjects' go along with him? State or religion?

Clever knut! :wank: :wank:

Cough, cough ... and who allowed you into this political debate? Wimmin, kitchen sink, bedroom ... hint, hint.

OK. Have you seen how much they charge these days for the ferry over the water? Daylight robbery, to be sure.

Don't be so ridiculous. I thought you might be able to come up with something a little less childish. The IRA's stated aim has always been a united Ireland not a religious war. The ragheads on the other hand advocate a 'holy war' against us infidels purely for not being muslims.





Don't know the bloke.



Name me one person who got murdered for dating a protestant girl.




oh do so fuck off, that last one is pathetic.

Take a trip to Milltown cemetery. You'll see the part played by reloigion.

Its impartiallity may be in dispute but it makes for sobering reading.. Have a look chip (and anyone else who's interested)and see if you can see where these lads who were actually involved in this are coming from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubl ... .931969.29

PS.... Is it suprising to see the mad muslims where involved in funding the PIRA as well!!

I dont believe anything written on wikipedia, not after it stated that alec jefferies (who discovered DNA fingerprinting in the 1980's), was a champion twister player at the university of Leicester

What a great name for a song. I'll get me guitar out...

Sounds a bit fishy to me.

Sprats right, here we roe...lets divert the thread with a good old fish pun..

I really don't know why you're all arguing over this anyway. From the beginning of time there have been nutters, dogmatists, who realised that if you can attach your twisted thoughts to any religion, you can justify any actions in the name of which ever religious franchise they're part of. They're nutters, viloent nutters and the world doesn't need them. Eliminate the nutters and you get peace.

I agree, and exactly what some of is were saying at the beginning, Snowy. I can't see why the argument, either

I'm struggling with a bloke who knows nowt about the situation, paints a 300 year problem black and white, has never faced the problem, but yet bangs on about it's Catholic against protestant, even though the Good Friday agreement was signed by SinnFein, not the IRA and still thinks he's the living expert.

Is that clear enough??

That is the end of my discussion and I have to say, I regret the remark about doing a stint in the Army 30 years ago. What were you doing?? Oh yeah, The Princess Charlotte........

A small but significant point, Kev....you didn't learn about the 300 year history of Ireland by being in the army, now did you? In spite of all the contemporary things you may have seen and experienced first-hand over there.
Older members of my family had terrible experiences fighting in both world wars, but none of them came home and tried to say they knew more about history as a result, or that the rest of us didn't have a right to an opinion just because we hadn't fought.

I find it difficult to comprehend how people can say the Troubles were not related to the issue of religion? I live with a lad from Omagh who is a dedicated Orangemen, went out with a girl from Armagh who is the niece of a Sinn Fein MLA and teach with a girl who is the niece of Bik McFarlane, the former priest who became the OC of Long Kesh during the Hunger Strike. All have agreed that religion plays a dominant part in their thinking and way of life. Unlike the Jihadis religion may not be the main issue now, but it is undoubtedly the wedge that drove the division between the Protestants and Catholics in the latter part of the 19th century and the early part of the 20th century. Think about people such as Robert Emmet, Wolfe Tone, Charles Stewart Parnell and Bulmer Hobson; all Irish Republicans, all Protestant. The last high profile Protestant in the IRA was Ronnie Bunting, and he was the son of one of Paisley's biggest supporters! It may only be used by a tool on both sides but it is apparent everywhere you look - 'For God and Ulster' as one of the main Loyalist slogans, the granting of 'special status' to the Catholic Church if the IRA come to power etc. It is just one aspect of both sides repertoire, along with social and economic issues, but the same can be said regarding the Taliban and other such groups if you look hard enough.

No one at any time has said that there are no religious divides, teh point is that it is not the central poijnt of conflict. That is one side wants a united Ireland, the other side doesn't. Those sides may well be predominantly Catholic and Protestant respectively but that is not the cause that the IRA spouted. The religeous aspects were incidental.

Raghead mullahs on the other hand spout Islam as the central theme.

Just a point about Northern Ireland, when you say Catholics, can you redefine it as 'Irish Catholics' please. ....and I still say it's all about two bald men fighting over a comb.

Gone on longer than the troubles now this thread.

A wise man once said; "Every time I find an answer to Ireland, they change the question"

Now this is a guess but was it David Lloyd George.

Not sure but I think it was Gladstone.

It started off in the 1600's as a Protestant vs Catholic issue so that's really the answer to the problem.

Not that there is a problem because Northern Ireland will NEVER be a part of a united Ireland. EVER.

It's British and always will be.

GSTQ

NS

PP

Dyke House.

The guy had great taste in bags.